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Episode 46- Decoding AQ with Ross Thornley Feat. Erich Kurschat - Insights from 16 years at the world's largest contract food service company in the world.

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Intro

Hi, and welcome to Decoding AQ, helping you to learn the tools mindsets and actions to thrive in an ever-changing world.

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Ross  

Hi, and welcome to our next episode of decoding AQ. I have with me, Erich Kurschat. Who lives in Chicago to share some of his amazing insights, but also some of his beliefs which we're going to get into in a little bit of time. So welcome, Erich.

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Erich  

Thank you, Ross. It's good to be with you today.

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Ross  

So as I read through and we had our first conversations of things, there's a lot of challenges and things that HR people have faced, and you faced many of them throughout your career and opportunities. And you've shifted now into being as you described, a disc nerd, but a connection coach, and many other things, you organize a network and community. And I want to start us back, Erich, in terms of your degree, and you had your original degree was in psychology and philosophy. And just tell us, what led you into that, why, and a bit of the sort of origin story of Erich at that stage.

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Erich  

I appreciate that I can already tell you've done your homework. I've always been a thinker. And I've always been on the introspective side, I'm somewhat introverted. And by the time I got to college had already done quite a bit of thinking, but when it came time to declare a major, I was uniquely drawn to psychology. I think because I've always been fascinated by how people behave and why we make decisions and why we gravitate toward and away from different relationships. And how we develop inner monologues that either work for or against us.

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And psychology just seemed like if I was going to spend any time in school, taking classes, when I would rather be out about maybe doing some other things at times, I thought, you know what psychology is what I wanted to be studying. But of course, that wasn't enough thinking for me, I had to throw in a philosophy minor, just to round out the experience of it. And that took me in a different direction in some ways. But those together, I think, really spoke to who I was, what I was looking to learn about myself and other people and hopefully set the stage for what I might do professionally.

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Ross  

And that shift, that all of us make that goes from the learning and the academic, wherever we decide to hop off that train, and hop on the train of work and decide where do we start our careers, what's our endeavors, some of us are still figuring it out. Others knew early on what they wanted to do and what they want to be. And you went into HR after that, didn't you?  And working at a company I know reasonably well, probably not as well as you but the Compass Group. And for those of you who might not be aware that Compass Group, it's a UK-based business. And they're a whopper, there are 20 billion-plus revenue business, about half a million employees across so many different divisions. And in my previous life, Erich, I worked with the Compass Group on a variety of projects and things on rebranding a number of their divisions and things. So you were there in Levy, or Levy but the restaurants arm and we were you there, maybe 15 years, something like that? 

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Erich  

Yeah, 15 or 16 years total.

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Ross  

Yeah, wow. And I guess in an organization of that size, such a variety of experiences that you will have had, but perhaps just share the early beginnings, and a few stories of some highlights of that journey for you and what the organization, no doubt went through many transformations and change and how that affected your thinking as a thinker. And also your sort of behaviors and the way you've connected with people and your relationships. So if you can weave in a bit of that story of your journey through Levy, and your thinking and relationships of how it's evolved to you now.

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Erich  

I'm happy to and I know a thing or two about adaptability. So this story has that through and through. When I moved to Chicago following college, I just, I needed a job. I had an apartment and I was paying rent on that apartment and utility bills and I actually fell into HR, which actually I've learned if you talk to a lot of HR folks talent acquisition included, you'll find that people fall into it even training, learning and development, talent development to a certain extent. And I started as I got the HR role with Levy Restaurants as a temp job. And because I'm sort of wired this way, I stayed for 16 years. And previous to it really didn't know too much about human resources at all, which is kind of surprising coming out of school with a psychology degree. But just HR wasn't something that I had studied, per se.

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And so I was figuring it out on a day-to-day basis. But I knew that my experience in human resources with Levy Restaurants in particular was going to be a special one. And not just because the perks of working in sports entertainment are fantastic. And in the foodservice business, that alone of course was exciting. But I recognized early on that I was working in a foreign organization that valued human resources. And colleagues of mine and other companies were telling me stories about HR being more policy driven, and just the nuts and bolts and things and getting into the minutiae of the people aspect of the business. But I felt that I was working for an organization that saw that HR could be more than that, more of a strategic business partner. Where HR could speak the language of finance, and the legal department and understand a profit and loss statement, and use all of that information then to get business done through people.

And I strongly believe that any business is really the business of people, it doesn't matter what widget you're selling, or what service that you really are in a business of people. And as you can imagine, much changed over my 16 years with Levy Restaurants. When I left it was a billion dollar company. And I think now it might be two or two and a half billion in revenue. But I really learned about myself and about others that meaningful work is possible. And it's up to each of us, I think, to define what that looks like and how we engage with the work that we do. But I will forever be grateful to have learned about the discipline of human resources through the lens of Levy Restaurants and Compass Group.

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Ross  

I think that's a great way that we can all choose how to look at our experiences because I'm sure there was challenging times and times where it wasn't great. But we choose to remember and think the stories that we tell ourselves, sometimes it might be hard to find a good story, sometimes it might be easy. But I think it comes to a point similar with my own experience as well actually, Erich. I worked for a publishing company when I came out of college. And it was a real gift because the people who were there, just the relationships I built were amazing, some of which I've still got today. And when we go to work, it's not just to do tasks, it's not just to create a value or an output, and old school HR or HR in a bad way was where that was where the naughty boy or girls room went when things weren't going right, rather than the strategic lever of growth.

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And I want to touch on and you mentioned it, this possibility of meaningful and fulfilling work. And you share that as one of your beliefs. It's one of the things I really loved actually, when I was doing some homework and research is when I read it, I thought of "Okay, so this guy hasn't got say 10 commandments that he lives by he's got 10 beliefs that you shared on LinkedIn.” And I'd love to just dive into a few of those beliefs, Erich, and why you believe them and also what advantage it is to believe those things. So the first one you mentioned, the belief of the possibility of meaningful and fulfilling work. The next one that you've got there is that workplace communication can be productive, collaborative and respectful. So as a belief with that, just a highlight a little bit more of why you believe that? Is it a hope? Is it a reality? Is it a desire and aspiration, maybe all of the above but tell me a bit more about that?

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Erich  

I think we all have experienced being in the opposite situation where you're saying everything that sounds good in your head. And it's being perceived as anything but how you intend for it to. And there could be any number of things, I mean, number of reasons for that. But and it could be as big as the culture of an organization, that the culture is just fairly toxic and unhealthy to begin with. And it doesn't matter what you put out into the world, it's never going to be perceived in the way that you want it to, and be taken as productively as it could otherwise. But along my journey with Levy Restaurants when I started working with the DISC assessment in particular, sort of as a common language for this, but even disc aside, when have the experience of speaking and being heard, connecting truly connecting meaningfully and productively with colleagues and stakeholders inside and outside the company, it changes things.

It changes how your work feels, it changes how your relationships feel, it changes how productive and effective and influential you feel that you can be. And I learned along the way that it can't be taken for granted that effective communication, although I believe it is possible isn't something that you're going to wake up one day and just decide, I think it's a, I forget the quote, who mentioned this, and it'll come to me, but someone said along the way, that there something along the lines of the greatest mistake in communication is assuming that it has taken place, that what you've said has been perceived or heard in some meaningful way. But I think when we are intentional about that connection, and we want very badly to connect meaningfully and productively with others, and we put in the time and the effort, and that it is possible, and it changes everything.

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Ross  

And I guess that thought of a belief that workplace communication can be productive, it can be collaborative, it can be respectful. I'm curious, Erich, in terms of the mechanics that sit underneath that of effective, productive workplace communication evolves, because it's contextual. You can have a great quote, just because it took place, assuming that actually, real communication happened is probably a very familiar observation for people, we can talk, are we heard, do we understand?

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I want to dig into, do you think the playbook is slightly different now, in terms of achieving that communication, productivity and collaboration with a workforces that are being more disconnected by having to work remotely and less physical sense of each other? Do you think that there is unique opportunities there? How do you see it? What are some of the challenges, and maybe if you've got any, some observations or tips on how we might be able to get to that area of really effective communication in a remote world, because I'm still trying to figure it out?

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Erich  

Yeah, my head is swimming with thoughts. But the thing I think of immediately as I'm working right now on a conference session that I'm titling, “You’re on Mute! Why you're not being heard & what to do about it.”

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Ross  

You’re on mute, why you're not heard and what to do about it. 

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Erich  

And I think that this is something that probably a number of your viewers and listeners can identify with is the experience over the course of the past year of jumping on a conversation like this turning on Zoom, or teams, or whatever your platform of choice is, and getting 10 or 15 seconds into your spiel. And people start flailing about, making gestures that you're on mute, and somebody will say, you're on mute. And then so we hit the unmute button so that we can be heard. And then we start talking, and we assume that whatever we say, is being heard and is landing with other people. And the argument that I'm making is, just because you're taking yourself off of mute, you've hit some sort of magical button that leads you to believe that you're being heard, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are if you're not taking into account, differences in communication and personality style.

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And I think, over the course of the last year plus being pulled away from face to face communication, it's said that up to 93% of the meaning of what we say comes through in nonverbal communication, 7% or so are the words that you use. And then the vast majority is how you use those words and body language and that sort of thing. So when you're not then face to face with somebody, you start chipping away at that percentage, right? You know, if you don't turn on your video, which is perfectly reasonable these days, you might not want your video on now I've lost all much of that nonverbal communication, I can only pick up tone of voice, we may as well be on a phone call. Well that then also limits my ability to connect meaningfully with you.

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And so I think what we've had to struggle with is okay, as we chip away at that percentage of how much of what we're saying is actually being picked up by somebody else. How much more careful do we have to be about our words, how we use them and how we use them between individuals and groups? If I'm having a conversation with you, Ross, I may choose certain words that I know are gonna resonate with you and then get your business partner on the phone and I'm talking with Mike or we're on Zoom together, I may based on what I know of him, I may choose different words. Now that those sort of techniques are certainly important and valuable when we're face to face. But I think as soon as we go virtual, we can't help but have to be that much more intentional about how we are connecting with other people.

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Ross  

And I guess that's part of our adaptive intelligence, right? To be able to adapt to the outcome we're looking to achieve. And if it's to be heard, then we need to speak the language. And the language isn't just the words, it's all of these other things. It's interesting you say that, because my wife can always recognize when I'm on the phone to certain individuals and people, she says, “Oh, were you on the phone with your Nan?” Because my accent shifts, I become more northern, when I speak to my Nan, and all of these just subtle differences that you don't know you're doing. And part of that is respectful, part of its to be effective. But then being, as you said, intentional about it and deliberate needs to be turned up the dial when we haven't got these other indicators that are coming in. So I think that's very valuable and I hope people let that sink in. The next belief…

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Erich  

Do you mind if I add something about that? And I don't want to go off on a tangent. But just because adaptability is certainly your language. That really was my introduction to being adaptable, is when I started working with this personality assessment in particular and facilitating conversations around it. And I came at it being introspective and introverted thinking, “Oh, what I learned about myself, and what I learned about Ross, in itself will be valuable to me,” to become more self aware, to become more aware of others, to be more respectful of diverse communication styles. That alone is valuable and it is.

But it's a third piece, I think that really ends up being the most valuable. And it's the adapting piece. If I understand myself and then I understand that you have different needs and priorities and tendencies, but I'm not making the effort to adapt to you. In order to communicate respect, I've completely missed my greatest opportunity to connect meaningfully and communicate productively with you. And so as much as I may appreciate and value showing up with newfound information about what makes me tick, or what makes you tick, it's not until that adaptivity piece, adaption, whatever right word is.

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Ross  

Adaptation.

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Erich  

The adaptation, thank you, that that piece is brought into the mix. I think that really you're making the most of the knowledge that you've gained about yourself and others.

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Ross  

And I guess it's that interplay between two components, you with another person, you with as a team, with other teams, you as an organization with your audience, your organization, within your industry, each of these things that which side is adapting to whom, why, when, what's the advantage, so it might be that “hey catching this person in the mornings, and they like bullet points, or they like to have the information beforehand, so they can do some thinking and planning or someone else loves the jazz off the cuff.” All of these things of styles of communication are helpful when we know. When we don't know then we're just stabbing in the dark, and we'll get a symptom of we've pissed someone off, or they've given us an applause.  And they've written us a check, or they've come back for more.

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All of those things, it's kind of sometimes a bit too late, “Oh we were misunderstood or we missed that opportunity with the market.” And because we didn't adapt the proposition, the communication, the style, the way we did things. So it is and I'm glad you dug in deeper there because it is so, so valuable. And a lot of these tools, all of these various metrics, insights, they give you some metrics, but we still need to apply meaning to that. And we still need to then leverage it. And it leads me a little bit to your next belief in your list because I was so fascinated, I couldn't wait to dig into some of these things. I'm going to adapt from my normal flow I'm going in here.

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The next one is that this belief that each one of us is capable of leading, managing and contributing with greater influence. So I think that really resonates with me is this permission about our future selves and how we might be able to show up in the world and that we have this capability rather than, “Sorry, you're this type, you'll never be a leader or you're this type, you'll never have influence,” that it speaks to me about these things as being something we can craft, something we can mold, a muscle that we can build around leading, managing, having influence. So tell me more about how you came to that belief. And what's the power of having that belief as well, Erich?

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Erich  

I think the biggest surprise in this belief is that Erich Kurschat has not always been this optimistic. I've been known to be skeptical, pessimistic, realistic, well use whatever word that you want. But suddenly, as I'm doing more work with people and with teams and helping them define and pursue meaningful work, see potential in themselves, I came to realize that leadership is so much bigger than I had originally thought, that I think many of us think that leadership is a title perhaps, or certain social status, and you're not a leader until somebody calls you, like dubs you a leader.

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And what I realized is that each one of us is leading in our own way, and has the ability to be so much more influential in how we lead, manage and contribute. If you don't like the word leader, that's fine, maybe contributors, something that resonates with your manager, maybe your focus more on performance, but I started to spend a lot of time especially with HR folks who were showing up for some of the networking events that I was hosting, and their title was assistant or coordinator. But we were still talking this language of leadership, that even at that level, you're perfectly capable of setting a vision, aligning people with that vision, and executing on it.

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That's sort of in DISC terms anyway, that's the work of leaders. Well certainly that's being done at the highest levels of an organization. But someone with an assistant or coordinator title can easily still be doing those same things. And so I came along the skeptical, pessimistic, HR professional, and I wanted suddenly to have this conversation about how we are capable of doing these things and really growing our influence in the workplace in ways that we had not previously considered.

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Ross  

I think it’s this opportunity to redefine the meaning of various things. And I know brands along the years have tried to help us believe certain things, to see certain things behind the curtains of what a brand might represent or what they might stand for. And if we think of the brand that leadership holds, we often think of title and position rather than behavior and thought.

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And it made me think, as you were talking there about a book, I'm not sure if you've come across Keith Ferrazzi’s work. But his latest book, called Leading Without Authority, is a really interesting juxtaposition and play on this whole thought of how it can break down a lot of silos and collaborations where this power and term that he's coined of co-elevation, that yes, we can lead ourselves but inspiring others and influencing others. And we don't necessarily need that title or the authority to do so, it's a behavior that comes out. And I think that speaks a lot to what you were talking about as well.

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And the next piece I want to dive into, and I'd like to do this in a slightly different way. And you have mentioned a couple of times in our conversation about you being an introvert. And there's a lot of talk in people of HR, all of this world between introverts and extroverts, what it means what it doesn't mean, what doors get closed, what doors get opened, what the realms of possibility are. And you believe that introverts underestimate their ability to network professionally. And I'm just fascinated by that almost oxymoron and play on the brand of what an introvert and extrovert and networking is, “Oh, no, the brand of networking, it needs extroverts,” versus your thoughts. So I want you to uncover that. And I wonder if we could uncover it through a story or through an experience that you might have had to build in why you think introverts might be under estimating their abilities to network professionally?

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Erich  

Yes, and then thank you, I love this topic. So in sort of, what one thing we've been dancing around, and I will introduce it here is this idea of the imposter syndrome, especially when it comes to professional networking and introverts. And I can't speak for all introverts, I can only speak from my own perspective, but I have a session called Network Like an Introvert because it's something that is really important to me to inspire fellow introverts to believe that they're capable of more.

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You can tell that this is a common thread and a lot of what I've been talking about and by the way, one of my favorite memes is something like introverts unite, just separately in your own homes. Which is exactly what the past year a plus has been, introverts uniting separately and in their own homes. And, it's a comfort area for me, I much certainly would prefer there not to have been a pandemic. But in terms of my social calendar and the demands for my time to interact face to face with people, the past year plus has been a little bit more comfortable for me personally.

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When I was leaving the corporate world and starting my own business, I realized that networking was something that I was going to have to do. And I say have to as opposed to like, get to do. Because as somebody who's on the introverted side myself, the last thing that I ever wanted to do to spend any amount of time was to be at an event with countless people that I didn't know, and didn't really have an interest, a vested interest in coming to know. But suddenly, that's how I was going to be building my business and reputation was by networking and building a network.

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And early on and to a certain extent, even still today, depending on the networking event, the first 10 or 15 seconds, maybe 30 seconds of my experience there is planning my escape route, like if I need to get out of here in a heartbeat, if I'm in a conversation that is just is no fun, where I'm not getting anything out of it, rather than how do I make this fun and enjoyable, how do I escape? Well, that's not the mindset that I wanted to have.

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And so I sat with it for a bit and I said, “Okay, what is my issue here? Why is it that I'm coming in with a sort of imposter syndrome?” Thinking, well, who am I to network,? Like, this isn't something that comes naturally to me, I don't bring any strength to it. What I realized is that I was judging my ability to network based on what I had seen extroverted folks do. That person who comes in and thrives on the energy and seems comfortable in the spotlight, and in the center stage and is so witty, and talkative. And I thought, I'm not that person. And if that person appears to be networking the way networking is supposed to be done, I'm never gonna do that.

And initially, then that kept me from doing it, the aha moment for me was recognizing that I don't have to do it like that person, that I need in whether I'm an introvert or an extrovert, because the table certainly can be flipped, or any other personality entirely. The extent to which I am able to do it in a way that is uniquely rewarding and fulfilling to me makes it into something that I want to do. But if I'm doing it for somebody else's reasons, and in somebody else's way, I'm never going to get to the point that it becomes a rewarding, fulfilling experience for me.

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Ross  

That's really helpful in the way that you framed it there, Erich, and I think it comes to a number of personal frustrations I have with things like labeling, when we often as a whole society and the way we structure work, is to label things. To put things with a title, with a box, have a list of descriptions on the role of what you can or can't do in the responsibilities and have the paths and the various things. And it was this governance was often a limiting factor, rather than an opportunity to build from. And it comes back to this interpretation of “Oh, networking equals X.” Whereas, if you think about the label of “Oh an introvert doing networking, what X might be Y.” Networking equals Y in an introvert's world, not that networking with an introvert equals zero, nothing can't do it. It's just the way or how or to define it as something that's different.

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And for many, as you've said, and a great introverts unite just independently in their own spaces, is exactly that way of thinking, is that we can give permission to do something differently, to find the reward in the root and how. And it's why in our view, when we look at a key component of adaptability is character, and it's looking at who adapts and why. Not whether they can or can't, not a capability, but an approach, a way in which if when we understand that, we can work in harmony and flow. And I guess that's similar of what you've just been describing is to create our environment, our network environment, in which insert label can thrive.

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And I think that is such an empowering belief, and one that's going to take a heck of a lot of work to pick away at because it's been so rife in our whole makeup and society of labeling and titles and what is possible. Whether that is a personality trait, a particular race, a color, a gender, all of these things that we label ourselves of what we may or may not do, rather than figuring out what's my future self, what do I want to look like? And then how do I evolve my unique blend of me into what that could be? And so, yeah, thank you for that.

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The next one that I'd like to just touch on, is in and around the belief that job seekers benefit from as you've put it, regaining confidence, and control in their search. Tell me a little bit more about that, Erich, and where that stemmed from and so I can understand that piece of it better.

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Erich  

You know, so I realized along the way that I had a heart for helping people to find and pursue meaningful work. And so I spent time in that area quite often, volunteering. As a volunteer for an organization or community of coaches helping people define and pursue meaningful work. And I think the job search can be exciting. But I saw firsthand, I've never been in an extensive job search myself, I've been fairly fortunate coming out of school, getting a temp job staying in the same place for 16 years. And then transitioning into my own business that I haven't been in extensive. So I wanted to put that out there, right off the bat. But I've spent a lot of time with people who are in extended job searches, and it is just, they get pounded down by it. I mean, it's just it, you really take a hit, your confidence takes a hit, your energy level, submitting resume after resume.

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And I wanted to have a voice in that conversation, I wanted to come in as the third party outsider to say, ‘Look, this comes down to your pursuit of meaningful work, and you have to define that for yourself.” And if it's just about getting a paycheck, there are any number of places you can walk into, get a job, and trade your time for money and get a paycheck. But if you're really looking for something rewarding, uniquely rewarding and meaningful, there's a way that we can go about this that makes things easier for you and makes things exciting, and allows you to regain a sense of confidence over the value that you're bringing to this conversation and the progress that you're making.

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And I think this very much ties in with what we discussed previously, because sometimes being adaptable is simply about adjusting your perspective. Sometimes it's about the practical stuff, right? Okay if I get overwhelmed by the thought of meeting 10 people at a networking event, I can go in just wanting to meet one, and then I've met my quota. Like that's a practical shift. when it comes to the job search, if it's exhausting to submit 50 resumes in a day, maybe I only have to submit 10 and then adjust my strategy. So there are those practical shifts that can take place, but also this sense that I can view things differently.

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If I've come in before with this inner monologue, telling me that being an introvert is going to work to my disadvantage. How can I shift my perspective on the strengths that I'm bringing to networking? If I'm in the job search, and I have this sense that, “Oh, geez, because I've heard no so many times, that means I don't have value.” What happens if I shift my perspective and I tell myself a different story? About being that much closer to a yes, or about me being in complete control over the story that I'm telling to begin with. And I don't mean to say that this is a switch that can be flipped overnight. But I think when you recognize that so much of life, both personally and professionally is influenced by our perspective on it. And that is something that we are in complete control over. I think the extent to which we see ourselves as adaptable, can very much be impacted.

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Ross  

It makes me think of how easy it is to trick our brains. We can smile genuinely, or smile on demand and say, “Oh, smile, smile,” and our chemical production and brain various things will to a certain extent, have similar responses to those things, whether it was real or not real. And when we come back to what you've just been talking about of regaining confidence and essentially this storytelling and reframing, we can look at reframing and saying, “Ah, I didn't do 50 job applications, that's what I needed to do. I only did 10,” when I go to bed, and our body brain and mind will respond to what you've just told it to, “Oh when I got up this morning, I hadn't done any. I've now done 10. Wow, I've got 10 out there,” and your body, mind, energy will shift around your confidence.

And building that habit is so important, especially when we're in challenged situations and unknown situations is that we need to protect our confidence. But not at all times that we've become egocentric, arrogant, delusional, that at some points, we need to tell ourselves that wasn't good enough, that is a negative story, we need to be better. But choosing when we're hard on ourselves, and when were our best supporters is really, really important. And often you need an outsider for that, right? You sometimes just need a spouse, a coach, or somebody to help you adjust with when you should be your cheerleader, and when you should be your critic. And I think that balance again comes down to this adaptability of our journeys of life that we go through. Before I go into the next one. I just wondered if you wanted to add any thoughts to that piece?

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Erich  

Thank you. Yeah, there are, I can't help but think of any number of quotes that sort of reinforce this, and I have a handful bouncing around in my head right now. I think it's attributed to Henry Ford saying whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. Viktor Frankl in Man's Search for Meaning, talks about, we're not often in control of our paraphrasing, of course, we're not often in control of our circumstances. But we are in control of how we view those circumstances and the attitude that we bring. Another one of my favorites is we don't see the world as it is, we see the world as we are, and two people can look at the same situation. And one might say, “Oh, this is really exciting and full of potential,” and the other person can say, “I just don't know how I'm going to move forward,” and the life experiences that are brought to that perspective, really influence it.

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So those are just a few, a few quotes that come to mind that reinforce the sense that there is a bit that we are in control of, there's a whole bunch that we're not. Stephen Covey used to talk about our circle of concern versus circle of influence, something along those lines, there's plenty that I could be concerned about that I have no influence over, what are the things that I could be concerned about, but also be able to influence and my perspective is one of those things I can choose to influence.

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Ross  

It is and I think this listening to you more and more, I can hear the beautiful blend of psychology and philosophy coming through. And of course, we're the form of what we spend our time seeking, doing and experiencing. And a bit like you said, fall into HR, you had to be on the road where the hole had HR on it to fall into it, right?

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Erich 

I like that analogy.

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Ross  

Yeah, I don't know, just having when you fall into something, again, that isn't an accident, we might think it is but we had to be adjacent to the hole. And there are many holes that we could fall into. And we might not through perspective, understand or realize why that hole presented itself to us until we're able to reflect. 

And this is another thing that leads me to one of my favorite beliefs that you've shared, that is a almost a superpower for perspective. And it's your belief that says, I believe in the power of intentional service to others.

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And to me, that is a superpower for so many things from perspective, to meaning, to gratitude, to confidence, to all sorts of things when we can provide service to another. And that the enrichment and fulfillment and chemical releases and all of these things that go on for us. It is oh, so powerful. And you mentioned yourself, you've volunteered because you want to help people find meaningful work, Harmony Insights, as this view of finding even harmony to work in those ways. So, tell me a little bit about why you chose that as one of the 10 for you to put in of intentional service to others, Erich?

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Erich  

So there are a couple of components to this. One of them, I think, is baked into my own story in evolution. I think coming out of Levy Restaurants after 16 years into my own business, I was very aware of all of the things that I needed. I needed an income, I needed clients, I needed a reputation, I needed a network. And it was so easy for me to show up in a one on one conversation with somebody like you or at a networking event. So keenly aware of those needs. And as you can imagine that also influence them how I was perceived and the words that came out of my mouth, I went much too quickly to some of the things that I needed.

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And so again, another example, I suppose of them this evolution where it just it didn't feel right. It didn't feel authentic, it didn't feel genuine, it felt desperate at times, and I just thought, “This is not how I want to be perceived.” What needs to change, now coming back to perspective, what is it I'm perceiving? I'm perceiving that the spotlight is on me. Well, I'm uncomfortable in the spotlight to begin with. I'm an introvert I don't want to be. So why do I show up to all these conversations needing and almost demanding to be served, when I can control where that spotlight is pointed.

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I can point it on you, Ross, and say, “Hey, you know what, enough about me, or maybe I didn't even start talking to begin with, I want to know about you and your work in your organization. You guys are doing some fantastic things in the area of adaptability and in others as well. I want to know about that.” So why do I want to know about that, why I want to know about it, maybe because it gives me a breather, I don't feel like I'm in the spotlight. But I also want to know about it, because then and this is the part two, there is value in being of service to other people.

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And you're going to have viewers and listeners say Erich, of course, that's the case. It doesn't take Gary Vaynerchuk coming out with a book, or any number of other people writing these books about first being of service, before making an ask. But there are those of us that had to learn that, that had to learn it, especially when we find ourselves in situations where we feel kind of desperate. And I had to define then what service meant. And in the beginning, it was showing up and being able to facilitate a DISC workshop for you. I was a DISC nerd, so that's what I did and that's what I lead with.

And then I realized that I can be of service in ways that go well beyond DISC, that may be a comfort zone for me, but you could have a headache or a challenge today that you articulate to me that “I have no idea how to help you with, but I can figure out how to help.” And in so doing endear myself to you and build truly meaningful connection and rapport in ways that I never would have otherwise, if I had just blown you off and said “I'm sorry, I don't know what to do about that.” And so redefining service, I'm a classical musician. When I'm onstage singing classical choral music, I'm serving my audience in a very particular way. But if I don't see that as service, then I'm just on stage singing. So understanding myself and redefining what service can mean and can look like.

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Ross  

And it can be for some people really little things. And again, it comes back to framing. You know is singing, am I just singing or am I serving? And it made me think as you were talking there about when people are right at their lowest, when things have gone wrong, when they're seeking for a job, their confidence has been broken, they're not sure of their identity anymore because their role isn't valuable. And we'll face this at some point in our lives, wherever it is, we'll have a bottom point. Might be different, your bottom point and my bottom point, wherever it is.

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And at those moments, it's often hard to think about service. It's hard because we might instead of be full of hope and hopeful, were feeling hopeless. Instead of being in a sense where we've got confidence, and we're useful, we feel useless. And when we're in those moments of being, useless in our own sense, and hopeless in our own sense. What could we serve? What can I even contribute? And giving ourselves this permission that we can all contribute in some way. 

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And it leads me back to the power of when you serve the activity of it, reframing your confidence that you can just help someone else out. And it can be just a small little thing. And if we use these at the right moments, that yes it's powerful when we're at the bottom. But it's also powerful when we're full of hope, and feeling really useful, and at the top to get us in check. And so these types of things can serve us at both ends of our journeys, to be at service, to give us a check in or to give us a boost up and to be humane and have humility and those sorts of things.

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And I want to finish up with a question and I've only just started asking this in interviews and conversations. And I've got this question and I also want a couple of practical tips that I try and get out. But this question, Erich, for you is one of the key components of being adaptable and living are in my view our best version of our lives is to remain curious. To always be looking for things that are new, that are changing and when we're young, we do it a lot. Because hey by virtue loads of stuff new, loads of stuff we're doing it for the first time. And what I've noticed is as we get drawn into our pattern of what we like, what we don't like, where we see value, what our jobs are, what our roles are. How many times do we do things for the first time?

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So I want to give you a moment to think about, when was the last time you did something for the first time? And what was it if you can share it? So just take a little moment to think about that, when was the last time you did something for the first time?

Erich 

So I guess what immediately comes to mind for me is that I have long facilitated conversations face to face, brought people together for networking purposes or to facilitate a workshop and facilitate face to face learning. When we went primarily virtual last March, I had to learn how to incorporate technology into what I do, in ways that I hadn't done before. And I enjoy technology, like I'm drawn to it sometimes spend a little bit more time trying to figure things out than probably I need to, but it is something that does motivate me. So will I think that's worth mentioning.

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But just recently, I decided, “Okay, well, I'm doing this stuff with my networking event that I have for HR professionals, and it would really benefit from some music.” I have never used music in my events. But now I feel like I'm in this event production mode because I have all these toys. And I'm like the one thing that's missing, I can do fancy stuff on Zoom with my cameras but I'm not doing anything with music. And I love music. I mean, the name of my company is called Harmony Insights, right? And I'm not using music. And because Erich Kurschat has some control issues, I can't just hand this over delegate to somebody else to do my AV, I have to also do AV while I'm facilitating. So that's another conversation. But I thought I really want to figure this out.

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Ross  

We should work on that together, Erich.

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Erich  

So it's not a substantial story. But this first for me was getting to a point with my facilitation that, having gotten certain pieces of technology and setup software on my computer in certain ways, I was able to welcome people to a recent professional networking event that I run and have a playlist of songs that were being pulled in as a feed, an audio feed into what I was doing on Zoom. I didn't know how to do that before. And I'd seen other people do it. And I had to spend quite a bit of time on YouTube learning from others. But having learned that maybe and it wasn't as smooth as it could have been. But seeing in the chat that people were really digging the playlist I had put together, there was a sense of accomplishment and achievement and pride and confidence that came along with that, that reminded me there is such value in doing things for the first time.

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Ross  

Very much. Thank you for sharing that. And it encompasses so many things, to be vulnerable, to be brave, to figure things out, to learn things, to do things that you hadn't done before. And they can be small, they can be mixing up things in a new way that have existed for you in other environments, but you're using them in a different way. All of these things are crucial to a rich life, to a life that's full of opportunity and full of, whilst serendipity that happy accident, like I said, you have to be on the road with the hole for you to fall into that hole.

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The same is true on serendipity, you have to go and be curious to have those things show up and present. So you sharing that story for our listeners to think about, “Okay, maybe there is something that I could do for the first time by taking that and using it over here or doing this. And that again, is just the framing we tell ourselves, ”Oh, that was new, I learned this. Hey, I'm going to give myself a break that it might not be perfect. And I'll look to do it again or decide actually, that was so bad I don't want to do it again. And I'll find something else.” So thank you for sharing that.

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And the final bit that I want to touch on was our world is changing so quickly and so rapidly. And this sense of changes requiring adaption at every level from an individual, the beliefs, the thoughts, the mind. Some things stay fixed, some things change, teams and organizations. What kind of tips or things are you doing in order to deal with all of this level of transformation and change that you're seeing and in and around your networks and bits? Tips that are quite practical for people to think about of how they might be able to maybe tomorrow or the next day, do something to deal with that kind of pace and change that’s ever accelerating? So what's your thoughts on that?

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Erich  

Well, given the work that I do, my mind immediately goes to personality and communication style. And I think it all starts with first knowing yourself. And I've worked with a number of people that say, “Well, here's something kind of fun and indifferent and innovative, I'm going to jump into it,” before recognizing whether or not it's a good fit for them in their current skill set. You know, are there skills that they need to develop that would help them be more effective in what they're chasing, is it aligned with their values to begin with? Yeah, that's an exciting company, but once you get there, are they doing work and producing products and services that you don't really value yourself? That's a significant misalignment.

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So, it starts with understanding yourself, how you are wired, what your preferences and tendencies are, what you value, what your comfort zone looks like, what it feels like to step outside of that comfort zone. And geez, when it comes to being adaptable, our relationship with our comfort zone is going to be really important. When you're given an opportunity to adapt, and it feels uncomfortable, do you shy away from that? Are you drawn to it? When there's conflict in your environment, are you drawn to it? Or do you shy away from it? Knowing yourself will really inform those decisions.

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And then part two is, and that can be done through an assessment or simply with conversations with other people. And then two is then better knowing your environment, better knowing what you're moving toward, better understanding the person that you want to develop the relationship with. Really dig in. And if your end goal is meaningful connection, meaningful communication and being adaptable to things that are moving so quickly, I think the better you understand yourself, better under you understand your environment, that's going to be your playbook.

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Ross  

Yeah. I think that's so valuable and easy for people to begin with. That can be having as you said, conversations with other people with really good questions, of those things. It's been really insightful. And thank you, Erich, for your time and sharing the stories behind your beliefs, and also your journey to today. And I've got every confidence that tomorrow is going to be brighter, and better and full of even more excitement and reward. People want to get in touch with you, Erich, what's the best way that they can get in touch to learn some more?

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Erich  

Thank you for asking. I am most active on LinkedIn by far so I'm there all the time. So you can find me Erich Kurschat. I'm sure you can find the spelling if there are show notes or here on the video even of my name, which is a little unique, but E R I C H. On LinkedIn, my company is called Harmony Insights and HarmonyInsights.com will take you to everything that I do from a DISC perspective and otherwise. And the HR networking community that I've referenced is called HR Hotseat and we're entirely free and we bring HR professionals together to solve common challenges and really connect meaningfully, surprise, surprise with one another. So you can find out about that at HRHotseat.com

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Ross  

Thanks, Erich. It's really been great to build our relationship and meaning. And I look forward to many conversations both philosophical and practical on our endeavor to solve the problems that matter, and the challenges that people are really facing to give them confidence and hope of their future. So thank you very much and enjoy the rest of your day in lovely Chicago.

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Erich  

Thanks, Ross. It's been a great conversation. I look forward to our next one.

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Voiceover  

Do you have the level of adaptability to survive and thrive in the rapid changes ahead? Has your resilience got more comeback than a yo-yo? Do you have the ability to unlearn in order to reskill, upskill, and breakthrough? Find out today and uncover your adaptability profile and score your AQ visit "AQai.io" To gain your personalized report across 15 scientifically validated dimensions of adaptability for limited time enter code "Podcast65" for a complimentary AQ me assessment. AQ AI transforming the way people, teams, and organizations navigate change.

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Outro

Thank you for listening to this episode of Decoding AQ. Please make sure you subscribe to your favorite podcast directory, and we'd love to hear your feedback. Please do leave a review and be sure to tune in next time for more insights from our amazing guests.

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