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Episode 27 - Decoding AQ with Ross Thornley Feat. Julio Maria Muhorro - Sharing positivity for success

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Intro

Hi, and welcome to Decoding AQ, helping you to learn the tools, mindsets, and actions to thrive in an ever-changing world.

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Ross  

Hi, and welcome to the next episode of Decoding AQ, I have with me today, Julio from Mozambique. Last year, he was recognized as one of the 100 most influential young Africans, which I think is fantastic. So we're going to dig into that. And the last seven years has trained nearly a thousand people in marketing, business and entrepreneurship, started with a degree in agricultural engineering. And tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey, perhaps from architectural engineering to now sort of business and personal growth coach, welcome.

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Julio  

Yeah, thank you very much, Ross. I'm super happy to be here today with you guys. So yeah, I had a pretty kind of not linear journey. I've always been interested in personal development and in education. My parents were both teachers. So hence, that passion with education and then I think it was around when I was finishing my college, and I was about to get to university, that I just found that people were way too complicated, as human beings you have a lot of layers, we are always, we have issues, we lie, sometimes we don't know what we want.

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And I just thought that people are just too complicated and let me focus on plants and animals, they're simple. For a plant, if you take care of a plant, if you water it, if you give them nutrients, they will try, right, they're going to give you results. And that's what I did. But then I figured out that even in agriculture, you have to work with people, right? There is no way of escaping people. 

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So I thought, instead of fighting it, how can I just make sure that I'm having the best relationships I can have? And how can I work with people who are at top of their game, and so  will support and challenge me to be at the top of my game as well. So from that event was really, I kind of went back to my personal development part, I started my first business with a friend of mine that was focused on delivering technical vocational training programs for underserved youth in one of the smallest towns in Mozambique. 

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And I have this moment where I was in class the first day in class. And I was ready to teach the very practical stuff like basic HR management, basic English. And I just felt that everyone in the room was so closed off, people had this image of a teacher that kind of like a godlike figure, ready for me to just drop knowledge, and they will just accept and I was like, “This is not it, this is not it, I didn't sign up for it.” So I realized that before tapping into any sort of technical skills, we must first work in the human beings around us, right. We have to still focus on developing the human beings, the person that we are working with.

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So yeah, Fast forward seven years from that, I'm on my third business right now and international, where we enable powerful personal transformations to drive career business and life fulfillment.

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Ross  

I love that. And it's interesting, both my parents are teachers. So when you said that, I instantly smiled and thought, “Okay, I have an element of understanding of what that might have been like and felt like,” and your last piece there talking about the difference between technical skills, and then human skills and recognizing what's important, maybe what comes first.

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And we're seeing that now, as a real critical element is a lot of the studies and surveys talking about the behavioral skills, what were called soft skills becoming way more important than the technical skills in what people are looking for, what employers are looking for. And yet we haven't focused on that very well, I think in education. And tell me a little bit about, what happened from there from that sort of initial moment of going, “Ah I need to focus on behavior on the human side before the technical,” how did you approach that and tell us some stories?

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Julio  

Yeah. So I was literally in the middle of a classroom, right. So there was not a time to kind of retreat, rethink and recharge, it was like a way to kind of break the room, literally. Because I believe that sometimes if you want to build something, you have to be willing to break a few eggs, right? I was just, let me just break the image that they have of the teacher. I immediately just sat on the table. I was like, “Just guys, take some post-its, let's just talk about your biggest failure so far.”

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And everyone was looking at me like, “I came here to learn not to manage a chart and now he’s talking about failure.” That was Yeah, and I share one of my failures as a teenager where I was invited to this kind of like fantasy party where people who have like all those go dress as typical African tribe people. And again, I didn't notice that to that party, they meant that for you to have like kind of two wardrobe pieces. So one when you where full costume on and the other one where you're more relaxed.

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So I ended up being in this crazy party as super late with just those natural kind of wardrobe on, in the middle of people full of jeans and all of the Western stuff. And it was super awkward. I was like the joke of the party. And it was like, “Why are you telling us that, you're supposed to be a teacher, you're supposed to be like this god-like figure.” But immediately, everyone starts to laugh, everyone started to share their failures. 

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And they immediately created a safe space where everyone realized that, we are all the same here, we’re just in different parts of our own journey. This is what I did immediately. But then I really have had to, went back and rethink how I will structure my lessons, because it was, two hours, they were gone. And we were just making sure that we just knew each other. We were comfortable with each other. And we were willing to learn.

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Ross  

And tell me what sort of age is it that you're helping through this process, and are the outcomes you have, in reading a little about you of entrepreneurship and business. Give me what was the context of that? And maybe the flip side of what was some of the great successes that happened of your learning and journey over those years of working with people?

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Julio  

That question has so many layers, Ross. So for starters, I was an early child and a lot of things. I remember, how I learned how to read was that I love bedtime stories, like most children, and my sister told me one day, “You know what, I'm not going to read you more than one story per night. If you want more, you have to learn how to read.” And I think I was like, three or four years old. But because I really wanted those bedtime stories, guess what I learned how to read. 

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And I also studied in a private school here in Mozambique, at the Portuguese school. And if you are in the southern hemisphere, most of the lessons they kind of like start in January. And if you are in the north side of the world, you start during, after summer, right? So in fall, for they will be September, right. And just that will give me an advancement of around a year from everyone else because I was kind of like a year ahead.

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And also, my birthday is in October. So I will start the lesson or a degree being like 17. And then by the end of the year will be 18, rght. So there's always been this kind of like cheating on the system that was naturally doing. And it was crazy, the fact that I was always the youngest one in my class. So I had this kind of like big brain in terms of technical skills. But then I remember that when I was like playing around, I will play around with the kids from the degrees below me because they weren't my age. So there was something that has been going on for quite a while. 

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So my first business I started when I was around 20 years old. And the funny thing, if you're an entrepreneur listening is that if you're having your own business, you realize that you might be making some pretty decent decisions. But I was having this feeling that I wasn't making the best decisions I could ever have possibly made. Because my knowledge was limited. I didn't have any mentors by that time. So everybody will come to me ask for advice and ask me what they should be doing. And if they should take their programs, because my programs were great, I was like “Guys, I don’t know I’m just making my way out,” and just like that, they respect that. So I was talking to my co-founder and we agreed that I will go ahead and look for a job where I could develop my leadership. And I became an advisor in my own business in that sense.

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Few years later, I end up selling my shares to my co-founder. But it was really great to have a mentor to support me and I was blessed to work for an organization that supports entrepreneurship and innovation. So it was all about going from idea to business and from business to revenue. I learned a lot, I grew up a lot. There were a lot of things that I had to embody. And I feel that most people miss that. Often times we'll look to, quote-unquote “successful people” and we wonder what they did to get where they are. But we forgot to ask who they have to become in order to do those things, right. And I feel that's how I've at least fight this imposter syndrome, because it's not about just doing things that are not aligned to who you are, is about becoming the version of yourself that is capable to do what you're trying to do.

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Ross  

It’s a really interesting piece is, I don't know if you’ve listened to the one with our podcast with Ben Hardy, and his recent book his “Personality Isn't Permanent” and talking about our future self, and having a relationship with our future self, and who do I need to become? But also who do I need to let go of? What limiting thoughts of my identity do I need to let go of to become the version of myself in the future that I see that's hopefully a better version because we want to create growth, and we want to create momentum in there. 

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So in terms of that self path that you went on of going and learning by doing, then finding mentors, experimenting, changing who you were along that. How did that kind of prepare you for maybe what you're doing now and what you want to do next? What sort of things have you picked up so far that might be helpful for our listeners to think about?

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Julio  

A lot of things. So one thing that I learned a crazy story, I got chicken pox when I was 21 years old. So it's a very weird thing for you to have much like a young man or a young person at all right? But thing is, I couldn't cut my hair for the longest time. And I've been my entire life with super like short hair. And I remember one day I just woke up, and I look in the mirror. And I really thought that the guy staring back at me was super cute. I was like, I never look like that. Because I never had longer hair.

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And immediately I started to wonder, why will this guy act like, why would we speak, but things really matter to him, because it's a totally new, strange person that I was just being right. And just by that thought, I immediately went back to all the feedback on things that I should be improving on myself, because my friends will always tell me like, “Julio, sometimes you are too rushed or you're too intense, prepare us to whatever you're going to say don't be so strict, be more open, don't take things in life so seriously,” right? So I said “Okay, so this guy, this Julio here, will be the guy that has more fun, the guy who listens more, the guy that is able to create connections with everyone, regardless of where they're coming from.”

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Just those basic things allow me to embody a lot of the characteristics that I was looking to have. And something that's interesting and I use that in a lot of my training is that, find triggers that allows you to remind yourself of who you want to be, right? Of the characteristics that you want to embody. So have something physical, you might not need to kind of like change your visuals all at once, right? It could be just simple as a bracelet, or a necklace, something that you can easily just touch upon it and remind yourself that, “Hey, I’m committed to be this version of myself. Am I playing full out? Am I acting like that or not, right? Just have those triggers around you. They're really helpful, that's one.

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Two, again, because personality is not fixed. If you don't like how you are, you can always change right? So let's say you decided to embody a characteristic that you really thought would be fun. But then once you do it, you realize that it's not fun, or in my case was, I always love, people who are organized and they stay organized. I'm not that type of person, I get organized, and then I get messy and I get back of being organized. So I tried to be fully consistenty organized in my life. And guess what, after a few weeks, I hated it. I wasn't having fun. I know I really love, fixing things and organizing my schedule and then messing it up. I just love that.

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And I just took a step back and went back of being where I was. But now being really more mindful about where I allow the cycles to happen, right? When I get organized, and then again, all messy. So really again, if you embody something you don't like, you can go ahead and change it. It's not fixed at all. So just focus on those two things I think would be great.

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Ross  

I like the story of intentionally adapting, but also being experimental with that. So thinking “Okay, this is the type of traits or characteristics” and that's the challenge is that will this stick? Will it become a new habit and a new version? Or do I repel after I go and try it for a little while and then be comfortable to come back to an element of that but know that you've experimented, know that you've got new knowledge. And other areas, it will stick and embody and become part of your future self. 

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And there's something that I want to share and I was introduced through a 360 to a company called MyIntent. Don't know if you've come across these little bracelets, they're called MyIntent. I think it's myintent.org And essentially, the founder, Chris he talks about the fact that we wear a watch on one wrist and that's important, because time is important. And we need to know what the time is, fine. And he said, “But what's more important is how are we spending that time? What are we focused on? Do we have an indicator for that?” 

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And that's where he came up with this MyIntent Band, and they're all personal and you pick a word, what is my intent? Either that's for your life? Or it could be just for that moment? What are you wanting to do more of or let go off? And a number of years ago, I got my first one and although it's one word, they said, I asked the system and I said, “Well how many characters is that?” Because I wanted to fit to word's in it. And I had unite, humanity was my intent. So when I'm spending my time when I'm doing things a bit like you said, is it a bracelet? Is it something that reminds you of how you want to show up in the world?

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This was a great trigger. And the follow-on from that was at the beginning, that was super inspirational. It got me excited and then I reached a point where it triggered more of an overwhelm for me that it was so big, that I felt “Wow unite, humanity,” when I'm on a good day, and I'm full of vibe, I got all my energy, I’ve got great sleep, I'm like, “Yeah, bring it on.” And on other days, I'm thinking, “Wow, that's, that's big.” And I get a little bit down from it.

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And another word came into my sphere, which was this term, co-elevate. And it's where, the rising tide raises all boats in the harbor. And in any relationship and collaboration that I have, I look for co-elevation. And so I thought, “Ah, that's the word for me.” That really was resonating at the time. And I felt, “You know what, I don't want to let go of the unite, humanity one,” and I was in this real quandary. 

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And I remember having a conversatrion with somebody, and they said, “Why don't you just wear both?” So since then, I've been wearing both. So I have unite, humanity and co-elevate, and I feel, this nice balance of huge aspiration, but also something that helps me in the day to day of how I approach relationships, how I want to show up. 

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And so I love that tip that you gave there of looking at those kind of two areas of what characteristics do you want to embody? And going for them? Where have you seen examples of that in others? So you talked about it in yourself, maybe people you've worked with some of these, hundreds of people you've taken through their own journeys of growth. Where have you seen successes and how did they overcome it? That would be really interesting to dig into.

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Julio  

Yeah, sure. I remember of two particular cases, and they ties up with something you were saying. The first thing is that when we are trying to embody a new characteristic or a new behavior, the imposter syndrome kind of kicks in and saying, “This is way too big, you're never going to be able to do that. Who are you to do that?” And the code that I come up with is, never let your ego interfere with your vision. Never do that. 

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And I was working with this entrepreneur. She's a cooker. She loves to cook, she loves to have people around and eating her food and talking and chatting. But she hates being the center of attention. She really struggled with that. And you know we were coming back and forth with it. And I literally told her, “You love cooking, right? You love people eating healthy food and really feeling great about your body. But guess what, if you keep just doing what you do, people will never have access to it. You will be literally forbidding the world of such a great gifts. You have those gifts, you put time and effort to develop in them. And now you're just sitting there with a pile of gold. Not allowing people to enjoy that. That's not fair.”

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And she was like, “Yeah, actually, you're right. So how can I change and start being more, outgrowing, and being in TV shows and podcasts and radio interviews?” I was like, “You have two possibilities here, right? Either you do it yourself or you have a co-founder who's going to be the face of the business if we're comfortable with it, right? But again, don't let your ego stop you from accomplishing your vision.” And she was like, “You're right, let me start small.” And I was like, “You know what, I have a lot of contacts on media, we can set you up during an interview, tomorrow.” She was like, Julio that’s too fast.” I'm like, “Do it anyway, remember, it's about your vision.” So that's one thing.

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And the other that I often advise my mentees is that, especially when it comes to something you said about having an aspirational goal, and then having a more day to day goal, I use that with my mentoring system. So I have and I advise everyone that I work with to have at least three types of mentors, right. So you have the first aspirational mentor, this is the person that really shows you that it's possible, because a lot of the time we limit our possibilities, because we've never seen it done. So if you don't have a reference, it's very hard for you to keep striving towards that. So this could be, in my case it's Oprah. She’s in a level, at least on the expression category, how she expressed her message, how impactful she is that I want to be at. So she's an inspirational mentor. And don't get me wrong, I don't know Oprah, personally, I follow her on social media, right. So you don't have to have the cell phone number of your aspirational mentor but just to surround yourself with their content. So you can tap into that whenever you need. Right that's one.

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But then you need an approachable mentor, this is someone that's just a few steps ahead of you. They are not your end goal. But you know that they are a stepping stone towards where you are heading. And this is someone that you can grab your phone and have a conversation. They can ask you some questions, they can challenge your perspective, they can support you. But really, you can just get close to them. And you can easily relate to them. And if you ask them about a challenge you were facing, it's very easy for them to say, “Hey, last month or last year, I was where you where, this is why I did it.” So you get the first strategies to move forward.

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And the third level is you must be a mentor to someone else. Most people don't think that they are mentor worthy. They don't have enough to be a mentor. But really, if you were in third grade, you can mentor someone from second grade, right? It doesn't have to be something crazy. But the benefits of that is that it allows you to be updated with what's coming next, because you're kind of like tapping into the next generation. So you know what's coming, then. And it will give you amazing listening skills, you will be, if you want to support someone, you have to be willing to listen. So that will improve your leadership in terms of being able to listen, you will be able to relate to people more easily, you will develop your empathy, and you'll be giving back. So there's not a content to it. And that's what I advise most people to do.

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I had a mentee, they worked into the health and fitness business. And for the longest time he was struggling to kind of set up a business that was tailored to his personality. And using this system, he was just like, you just took a huge weight out of my shoulders. Now I can see where I'm heading, I can see the next step that I have to take. And I feel great because I'm giving back to people who are just starting up. So yeah, that's how I go around it.

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Ross  

That's a really intelligent model. Because the challenges between realizing a vision and that not paralyzing, but being able to move forward. And especially in the situation where we have so much uncertainty, that just, the road ahead is so thick in fog, because we can't predict what's happening because everything's uncertain. Having somebody that's just a few steps away in the direction that you want him to go in can be super helpful. 

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And I think that's a great tip for people to think about in terms of what they might be facing. They might be facing a need to reimagine who they are, how they show up in the world, what skills they have to get in a different job, a new job. We're at such a transformation and transition in the world of work, that many who might not be entrepreneurs historically are finding themselves may be thinking about starting that, there might have been in working in jobs in roles that now no longer exist, or about to no longer exist, that taking that leap requires yes as you rightly said, some view of someone else who's done it, helps give us confidence and then take these little baby steps towards it. 

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In terms of when you do that and when you have this right kind of structure of mentors and even becoming one is a really nice way of also thinking about it. What do you think alongside listening, which you said was a key component to all of that? What are some of the other skills, either technical or human, do you think are going to be the most essential for the future that we're facing, in your experience?

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Julio  

I will say this is a buzzword, especially in the personal development industry, but it's empathy. As a mentor or as a mentee, you have to have the ability to see yourself in someone else's journey in someone else's life, while still not projecting your own fears and your own limitations toward that person. And it's a really fine balance, that you kind of like play around that. But I believe that once you found that, you'll be an instant connector. You don't have to have like, great quotes, or billions of dollars, or euros or whatever in your bank account. But just being relatable. It's a super skill that everyone should be focusing on. And I believe that empathy is their way towards it. And again, remaining grounded, so you're not projecting your own fears, and limiting someone else's growth. 

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You know, I coach some of people who are way, way ahead of myself, they're making way more money than I'm making, they're making way more impact than I'm making. And it's easy when you are in a position to think that, “Oh, I'm not enough to coach this person, I'm not enough to give something of value to them.” But once you realize that your current situation is based on your own predetermined systems, your belief systems, your mindset, your own limitations, just make sure that you're not projecting that into someone else's life, while still being able to connect with them.

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Ross  

So we've got somebody who's just listened, and they've said, “Ah, empathy, yes, I want to be really good at that. I want to get better at it. And I also want to make sure that I'm grounded and not transposing my own limiting beliefs or fears or whatever in the people around,” if we focus in on empathy if I want to become more empathetic, what could I do? What would be some of the steps that I could take to take that word or theory or phrase into my daily practice? So we talked just before we started recording about the importance of daily practice, of building habits, of whether that's self-reflection and things like that. With empathy, what could I start tomorrow, in my daily habits that in your experience would help me level up my level of empathy?

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Julio  

Sure. So first things first, let's take a step back into that. And before giving you the practical techniques that you can use, I like to always focus on three levels of learning. The conscious learning, subconscious learning and unconscious learning, that's how we have been learning, since we were born, since humankind was created. So studying in the conscious level of learning, there are different exercises, a particular one that I do is, if you have someone living with you, that will be great, literally try to wear their shoes, like literally, what I'll find in most cases is that a lot of people don't have, they try to put themselves in other person's shoes, but they never take their own shoes to do that. So I will never be able to experience your reality if I'm looking it from my point of view, right. I have to be able to kind of strip away with my ego, not in a negative way. But just chipping away everything that I identified with to be able to really resonate with your story, really resonate with your message, right.

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And this is an exercise, if you have any toddlers at home, you can try to kind of look at the walls from where they're standing. So for a few hours or a few minutes, you just kind of like sit or just crawl around your house to just try to see, how did they see the walls in a practical way. It's a fun exercise. You can do it on a Saturday evening or Saturday afternoon just to have fun around that. But just try to do that. It's a great conscious way to tap into your empathy. 

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If you want to go in a more subconscious way, try and this can be so challenging to do. You know if there is someone that you cannot stand, like every time that you think about the person like your stomach pains, you just be “How can this person be like that?” Try to have a conversation with that person or at least listen to something they're sharing and try to find common ground. This is particularly useful if you are trying to build effective communication, try to find common ground. I did an exercise when I'm super around, gender equality and gender balance. So I was having a conversation, one of my friends that he's an extremist, anti-women growth and anti-women development, like in his mind, women are inferior to men. And I was starting to have this conversation with him and trying to understand his point and finding part of that we came to a common ground that both of us, we value family.

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What is different is that on his side, he thinks that women are the best ones at taking care of children in really bringing, effectively this to the world. So they should be at home. Why in my point of view, limiting a woman to that role is just limiting those leaders growth, and from that we were able to find common ground because we both agree that family is a key aspect of life. And thing is, we didn't came to that common ground immediately. It took us all a few kind of reflecting moments. So that's where your subconscious mind tries to find common ground and no time to find separation. So I'm going to give you those exercises that I found particularly impactful, and building empathy.

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Ross  

It's quite often human nature, when we meet somebody who has a different viewpoint to us. Their desire is often to help them see our viewpoint. Let me tell you why that's limiting why, having a view, around that way,…

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Julio  

You're wrong.

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Ross  

You're wrong, this is what it is. And that's how often the friction comes. And this opportunity without judgment, to seek to understand and find common ground, like you said, super hard, super difficult.

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Julio  

It's super hard.

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Ross  

A great way to build because in their own selves, they have the rational, rationality to think that that is the right thing, equally the way you feel about yours. So I think that's, that's really interesting. And I've got another quick story where you mentioned about, if you have children, just seeing the world through their eyes by crawling around on the floor and things.

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I remember when I was running innovation workshops, and we were talking about seeing things from the viewpoint of the user. And I'm going to try and do this without visuals. And imagine a nursery room where your babies in the cart, and you're looking at their mobile up in front, and the story is about how that was created with so much love. And this beautiful craft that they didn't buy it, they made it themselves is this mobile has got cars on it, planes, all these sorts of things that they've cut out in cardboard, all these colors, and it's beautifully looking mobile. 

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And they were concerned because their child didn't seem that interested in this mobile. And they spent all this time, they made it all these colors, all these shapes and thought it was fantastic. And got to the point where they thought, oh maybe there's something not quite right with their child. And it wasn't until they looked from the child's perspective and looked up. And all they could see was a few lines of the cardboard. Because from underneath, it just looks like a few lines. 

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Only from their viewpoint, could they see the shapes and the colors of the objects. And that just came into my head when you were talking about to literally wear the shoes, because we talk about that saying a lot, to wear someone else's shoes, but do we actually go and maybe sit in their chair? Do we look at things from their viewpoint down on the floor, or from outside a room. 

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And I wonder if there's an opportunity where for some technology can play this. And I've heard of the examples in virtual reality, where you can take on the very physical nature of somebody else. So you can be a woman and see how people are interacting for training, you can be of different color and see how people are interacting to give us that experience of empathy in a very unique way. 

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And I've heard some very incredible stories where people have broken down their past beliefs and barriers by being able to experience it in a really unique way. But if it's just getting on the floor and crawling or finding the shoes to putting on VR goggles, the essence is the same to appreciate without judgment. I think that's a great piece. There's been so many great tips Julio that you've shared with us of mentorship of how to view and look at the world even down to the three phases of learning has been really interesting. Has there been a question that I haven't asked you yet that you would really love that I would have asked you? And if so what would that question be?

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Julio  

Oh, I guess the question is, because in the end of the day, we're talking about adaptability, right? It will be, why do you have to? Let's say you decided you're going to take the lead in adapting, the whole adaptation journey of your life? Why do you have to have to consider, before doing anything, because I believe that most of the time we are focused on improving and getting better but we never realized why we are doing that in the first place. What's your goal? Again, tying back with one of the different forms of learning is that throughout the history, we have been adapting unconsciously, right? Our environment is shaping us, our ancestors have been shaping us, and we just kind of like a byproduct of life.

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And I found that a lot of people are now awakened to the fact that we can lead that change, we can lead that adaptation. And I really question, the first question that really people should be asking themselves is why they should adapt in the first place. And not in the external way where you're adapting because the industry is changing. Because now everyone is using computers, and typewriting is not a thing anymore. But really, on a personal level, why are you adapting? Why are you really bothering with change? And just sit down with a question for a little while before you start making any moves. If you don't find your why in life, keep looking for it. Before you even consider leading your change, go and find your why. And you'll be surprised to the fact that your why is not with other people, your why is not in a book, your why is not with me or with anyone else. We are just kind of like tools and mirrors to reflect that why to you, your why relies with you.

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Ross  

It does and it's one of those eternal things to expand on, find your why. So where is it, I'm on this, the treasure map with the red X on it, that I can go and open this box that says, “Oh, that's my why there it is.” And the reality I've experienced is that why is a series of questions and events of trial and error of doing things and saying, does that fill me with energy does it fill me with joy, do I leave things better than I found it for others, and we shape, we mold and we discover and we create our why through our experiences. And I feel a lot of the elusiveness of “Ah you've got to have your purpose, you got to have your why, your MyIntent Band.” And you know all of these things.

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For many, that is life's work. That's their life’s journey. And to accept that along each day, each piece and breaking it down is important. And you picked up on a really critical piece about the importance of context and goal in relation to adaptability. Knowing am I doing this because it's a survival, there is a burning platform. And the choice is one that if I don't, I fear what the reality would be, it might put me in danger, it might put my family in danger or my future in danger. And therefore some need that amount of pressure, that amount of burning platform before they'll even do it. Others might be because they're why is an ambition lead one, they see the growth, they see an opportunity and they set something and say like you said, “I see me in a mirror for somebody and I want to create the characteristics and the way that person communicates. And I'm going to create it,” until you were experimenting in that.

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I just love this. This sense that comes from you and energy of joy about life being just fun comes from you that you're this sense of control by just thought by intentionality and permission that you give yourself to do and I think I'm going to take that away from our conversation today is just really reflecting on giving myself the permission to be the person that I want to be just each day and each week. 

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Julio  

I love I love it.

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Ross  

And that I think is a great view, especially in challenging and uncertain times of those things. If people want to reach out to get in touch with you Julio what's the best way that they can do that?

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Julio  

Oh, sure. So I’m on social media on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram, you can find me @JulioMuhorro. That's JULIO MUHORRO, where you can also reach me via my company's LinkedIn. So it's Sharing Knowledge International. Again, that's Sharing Knowledge International, and we can take a conversation from there.

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Ross  

Love it. It's been a real pleasure to get to know you during our conversation and truly inspirational to hear your own philosophy, your own experiences, and the gift that you're giving to people that come into your orbit. And to help them grow and go on their journey has been really, really good to understand learn, and I'm excited to see what we can create together.

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Julio  

Great, I'm super happy and grateful for our time together.

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Voiceover  

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Outro

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