Podcasts

Episode 14 - Decoding AQ with Ross Thornley Feat. Nancy Watt - How Improv can help us Adapt

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Intro  

Hi, and welcome to Decoding AQ, helping you to learn the tools, mindsets, and actions to thrive in an ever-changing world. 

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Ross  

Hi, and welcome to our next edition of Decoding AQ. I have with us today Nancy Watt. Now Nancy describes herself as a Pracademic, if I'm pronouncing that right? Is that the kind of approach that you take to applied positive psychology using improv? So that's maybe a mix of practical and academic. Right? 

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Nancy  

Exactly right. 

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Ross  

Perfect. Welcome. 

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Nancy  

Thank you. Nice to be here.

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Ross  

Great. So I read that in your workshops, you focus on communication and leadership, and particularly in this area of helping people deal with unpredictability, help them build mental agility and innovation. And just tell us a little bit about how you've got to there. From where I read, you started sort of working in Big Pharma Workshops. Give us a little bit of a whistle-stop tour to that.

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Nancy  

Sure. Well, thank you. Well, I was in big pharma and nothing wrong with that job. Great job, wasn't quite the right job for me. It didn't have enough of me or what I needed, and which is basically read creativity and that type of outlet in that job, but worked with some of the nicest people I've ever met in Big Pharma. 

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So I left in 2006. And when I was a little girl Ross, my hero was Carol Burnett. Carol Burnett, Carol Burnett well pioneering, comedian and she was just great. And I loved and I used to act as a kid and after I left pharma I stayed home with my very young children at the time, but quickly grew a little bit restless and decided to try my hand again at acting. So I did I quickly got an agent and before I knew it, all of a sudden, oh my god, I had done like half a dozen commercials. Always interestingly, ever cast as the mother. I was just always the mother. I was the minivan mom, the Canadian hockey arena mom, the chicken stirring mom, you know. And when you would go on a lot of auditions, they would say, okay, good prep, good audition, now improvise something. Now do a little improv in the audition, you know and I thought, oh geez I need more practice at that I need to get better at improv. 

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So I tell you, when my children were in bed, like a thief in the night, I used to leave the house and take the go train into downtown Toronto to Second City drop-in improv classes. And there I discovered a world of improvisation. And I tell you improv changed my life. I was immediately intrigued with the pedagogy of what was going on, the deep connection and communication and mindful, playful mindfulness that was going on it, it was a game-changer. And fast forward, you know, then I auditioned to become part of the Conservatory in Second City, and I was twice as old and half as cool as the rest of my troupe. 

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And then I continued on and did the comedy sketch writing and then did a bit of the TV and films online stuff with Chicago Second City and then went back to school and studied more positive psychology for optimal human functioning and how applied improv informs that and taking all of the evidence-based research into that psychology and behavioral economics and neuroscience and then practically applying it with experiential learning. It exploded like I am having so much fun and the creative agency that I run, works with all sectors. And that's what we do. We do applied improv workshops around leadership and communication and adaptability and all of that.

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Ross  

It's so interesting, one of my favorite memories, actually, pre COVID I was going to Chicago every 90 days with 

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Nancy  

Oh, no way. 

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Ross  

And prior to that, I was coming to Toronto, every 90 days for a few years. But I visited Second City in Chicago. Wasn't the last time it was the time before and a group of us went.

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Nancy  

Okay.

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Ross  

And I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed it, really enjoyed. You know, it was kind of a off-main stage that we experienced. 

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Nancy  

Okay, good. 

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Ross

And, you know, is this just a wonderful opportunity where humans react to things in unexpected ways? How do you keep the flow? How do you do that? And yes, I imagine there are lots of skills and techniques with it, but just that human nature to be able to come up with new things. When you put something in the mix, I really, I'm fascinated by it. And I love the fact that you've got a connection to something that's so fun, so enjoyable in the workplace.

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Nancy  

That is awesome. I was gonna ask you, why? why did you find that so intriguing? What was it about that, that you loved that entertaining?

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Ross  

Well, I think the reason I go over there is very strategic and business. Where there, it's an entrepreneurial coaching environment.

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Nancy  

Sure.

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Ross  

And, you know, generally, after you've had a head filled of these thinking about your thinking, workshops.

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Nancy  

Metacognition.

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Ross  

You just want to go and perhaps just veg, just meditate. And by a group of us going there, I just found it so, it's able to escape, but also just a way in which I, I don't know, it gave me a new lens to see things. And I guess that's what learning is all about isn't it, is finding new ways to see things. 

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Nancy  

Oh, you pick the words right out of my mouth, the new lens, the new lens. When we, one of the wonderful things, in fact, I just had a great conversation with a group of scientists around the difference in audiences, audiences investment in an improv show, as opposed to traditional theater, you know, and how emotionally invested the audiences are, because what they are witnessing has never been for, never before been performed. And they are a part of it, very often, they have given the offer, as we call. What they have given, you know, this scene is gonna be about sea turtles or whatever, right? And, and they watch it, and they are invested in the co-creation, and they are neurologically, psychologically, emotionally attuned to what is going on in the story. It is not just unfolding before them, they are indeed a part of it. 

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And that is fascinating. And when you say, to watch people just react and tap into a spontaneity, I tell you, one of the most satisfying things about delving into the research and applying this is watching what happens when people tap that spontaneity, and they have an intuitive knowledge that rarely sees the light of day, but is allowed to be expressed in improv, and very specific exercises, and I wish I had $1 for every time somebody left a workshop and said something like, I did not see that coming, or I did not expect that. And when you also said, I'm sure there are some rules and what makes that work? Indeed, you are right, of course there is and the fundamental rule of improvisation is something called “Yes And, Yes And”. “Yes And” means that when you and I are on stage together, I agree with the reality that you have created, I agree with what, wherever we are, if we're on a sailboat, you say we're on a sailboat and that coming winds and the large waves, I yes that, I agree with it.

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The “And” is where I heighten and I add my own contribution to the scene I advanced the scene as it were and I tell you why I think that applied improv is a great way to learn is that it parallels what learning does emotionally for human beings. When we learn as you know, you have done such great work with Adaptability. You understand the reticence, the initial speed bump that many of us have with learning and unlearning, but hold that thought. The learning is, and the “Yes” gives us that necessary vulnerability. I mean it, I don't know what I'm about to agree with what I get on stage, like whatever you say, I have to sort of agree with, interestingly, I don't necessarily have to like it, but I have to agree that that is indeed the environment that we're working with. 

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The “And” of the “Yes And” where I contribute is empowerment, I get to, I get to put my hand on the rudder and steer a little bit where the scene is going and I try to be deeply attuned to you and I try to make you look good and we are co-creating something together. And this combination of “Yes And”, this combination of human learning whereby we are vulnerable, empowered, vulnerable, empowered, vulnerable, empowered, is exactly what the pedagogical research shows in scaffolded learning and how we become more, you know, how we become more confident.

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Ross

How we just become more, you know, it's as simple as that.

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Nancy

How we become more, becoming.

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Ross  

In listening to that, for me, it was this sense of, you know, yes is one of discovery, you know, and, and then you're getting control. So it's out of control, in control. Its openness to now I'm closing something in my realm, and just that dance between the two, it's a lot like, jazz. I've been to lots of jazz festivals, and the difference between a performance and a jazz that's off the cuff where people just are playing their instruments and riding off each other. 

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And who knows, when one's going stronger, and the other one's feeling back, but there's just that right, energy and flow, there's respect there's “Oh I acknowledged that you've played that note, I'm now going to play this one from here, I've acknowledged you've gone slow, I'm gonna go fast”, all of those sorts of just poetry of things is interesting now. 

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Nancy  

It is poetic. 

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Ross  

It is, it is. In terms of people like us that are open creative, we're quick start and we are smiling and energized by the very thought of this. I know there are people that would be the exact opposite, they'd be running to the back of the room, they wouldn't be smiling. Everything about them would be “I'm uncomfortable”. Tell me some stories about, getting this into not a drink fueled, a bar environment with snacks where people have signed up for this and they're up to it to, “Ah, I'm now in work and someone's organized an improv session?”. What's that been like?

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Nancy  

And WTF. Who ordered her? I can't tell you, I love that question.

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Ross  

Yeah, tell us some stories.

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Nancy   

I love that question. Some of my best stories, some of my most satisfying workshops have come from individuals who are initially so reticent. I love how you talk about “Yes And” being one of discovery. And that's indeed what we talk about to discover, discover uncover, discover uncover, and what we uncover is yet to be unknown. And when you think about the scientific methodology of discovery and innovation and curiosity, curiosity mindset, that is necessary and absolutely, absolutely critical. 

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So I get to do a ton of work in STEM. I work with engineers, and physicists and technologists, and I tell you what, walking into a room, I get that wall of like, I don't do improv. I don't do funny, I don't do, you know, and when we think about humor, as the role in society, and how we can use humor and comedy to learn, and by tapping that spontaneity, it's good to sort of go to the research. And it has been my strong anecdotal experience that if you're dealing with engineers, surgeons, lawyers and scientists, you got to start with why. Why are we about to do this? Before we do this? It’s just you know, that they need to know.

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Ross  

To weigh the work.

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Nancy  

Exactly have and thankfully, with the intellectual rigor and enough evidence-based research, which thank God there is, you build the case for doing so. And interestingly, when you talk about jazz too Ross, there's a great researcher named Dr. Charles Lim out of Berkeley. He did FMRI studies on jazz musicians to understand what was going on with their brain neurologically, when they were in an improvised thing. And indeed, I'm one of the producers now of a documentary with Colin Mochrie from “Whose Line Is It Anyway” that show you might know, and we put Colin in this laboratory at Berkeley and watch where his mind went when he did improv. 

And the part of the brain that is suppressed when we are in an improvised state is something called the lateral prefrontal cortex. That's the part of the brain that is you know that the reticence, the guardedness, the self-monitoring, self-monitoring the part of the brain that sells us you know in a group of Scientists they're all saying, “ I don't do that, don't do that, don't go there.” The part of the brain that lights up when we are in a creative and playful state is called the medial prefrontal cortex. That's the part of the brain that is responsible for, among other things, self-expression, self-expression. 

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So it has been my experience that we're armed with that neurological of data, I put them in that necessary discomfort, I make them uncomfortable and watch them. When you're talking to physicists, it's good to speak in their language so I will tell them to watch for the phase change of their feelings, watch for a feeling of change from being an intellectual to creative, from being methodical to playful and watch what ideas and innovative thoughts come as a result. 

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And I can tell you, when I was at Princeton, working with a group of physicists, they just about killed me, but at the end, it was so rewarding. And they had deep collaboration and a newfound respect for each other's ideas as a result of following the "Ensemble Building Process”. I'm writing a book right now with a judge, and we are looking at how applied improv techniques are useful for the lawyer in a courtroom. The lawyer is never, never goes into a court unprepared. And yet, she or he should also be able to be.

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Ross  

Ready for the curveball.

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Nancy  

Ready for the inevitable curveball. And this judge tells me that, she sees attorneys falter and really stumble and fail as a result. So building the resiliency, and the adaptability muscle in a court is critically important as well. Failure is really a good idea.

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Ross  

It is, you know, this subject is applicable to every factor of life, in every work environment. And where and when we use it, we can get really specific and creative about it. So this kind of thing, I think opens up to opportunities as a stimulus and primer for certain things that follow. If this is done maybe too early in a process when it needs to map the context, what's the why, what's the challenge, what's the framing of the event we're trying to do? Versus now we're trying to diverge and look at multiple solutions. Using improv in the right phases to deal with uncertainty and unpredictability, I think is also a really interesting thought process that I can imagine we used to run lots of innovation programs for organizations. 

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And many would want to come straight to the solutions, straight to the ideas, because they've been thinking about it all the time. But perhaps they hadn't defined the problem well enough, or really even uncovered, what the problem was that should be worked on and solved, and so that hesitant to just rewind, establishing frame well first. And you talked about this in terms of how to get buy-in from people, whether it's about the evidence backed because that's how they are motivated to change or to do something. And then the best thing, for all of us to get a behavioral change is experience it. So the commitment for everyone listening when they come across something, whatever it may be, try your best to experience it before judgment. 

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And so let's see if we can give for those who might never have come across improv outside of watching a TV show, or maybe on stage, they haven't thought about it in a work context. How might this apply? And I am thinking of something that you shared with me earlier about psychological safety, and about performance pressure within people. And psychological safety is something that's discussed a lot, certainly within people and human resources, and especially around uncertainty and change. So give us a little bit of thought and your area of how people might be able to apply this today or tomorrow within their businesses, some little practical tips. Let's get straight into that because I can't wait to hear them. 

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Nancy  

Oh, such a good question. The work of psychological safety and I should credit Dr. Amy Edmondson, the Novartis Chair of Harvard Business School, for really pioneering that concept, we parallel exactly the building of psychological safety with a similar improv, four quadrants. She talks about the building of psychological safety, not necessarily meaning, just trust or liking our team members or the people with whom we work. But having that, building an environment that is safe for that interpersonal risk-taking, that we can have those candid and necessary conversations and the performance pressure being such that, how much accountability I bring, to make sure that the task at hand is done and done well. When I lack psychological safety, or I'm just not, I don't feel safe in the environment.

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Like the massive Aristotle Project that Google did, the necessary, they did this huge organizational dissection of 185 teams to look at, what it was that made some teams so much more effective than others. And long story short, but five things. Number one was the psychological safety. It was that we could have, those candid conversations that when I made a mistake, you were going to be okay with that and we would learn from it, we would learn from it. Building the learning culture, the learning, having the inherent curiosity and necessary motivation to learn as a result of, in spite of, and because of the mistakes made is indeed the point. And culture travels in the boat of language. 

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And so, we talk a lot in improv about listening, and the five different ways of listening and how we, how the science of human reciprocity when we give, when we take, why we do, why we don't, and that all is part and parcel of building psychological safety. I mentioned earlier that the “Yes And” rule, yes means that we accept the reality that has been created. And, and is where we advance from that.

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Ross  

And allows us, that allows us to exist in the learning zone.

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Nancy  

Exactly!

Ross  

In terms of these quadrants, that when we're in there, and paint us a picture of these other quadrants that you mentioned in terms of the psychological safety in the performance pressure and how they then relate to improv because I found that just fascinating.

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Nancy  

You know what, when I had lunch with Dr. Edmondson at Harvard Square several years ago, she found it fascinating too. And we had interviewed her for the documentary as well a with applied improv with Colin Mochrie, it is important work. Because again, it is the practical application of her academic theory. That's what I do. That's what I, you know, tell me the theory and let me apply it in improv. 

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So with someone with a low “Yes”, in our organization, in our team, say, for someone who is perhaps a contrarian or someone who says not “Yes And” but “Yes But”, oh my god, beware of the word but, but, but, but, but, is an immediate speed bump in collaboration. People put up walls with that word “but” immediately men, women, ethnicity, the cultures, it's the same thing. 

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So with a low “Yes”, and a low “And” they don't necessarily advance the scene, she talks about an individual being in the apathy quadrant, very often in large bureaucratic organizations. And in improv, we talk about someone with a low “Yes” and a low “And” being a blocker. We talk about a blocker. When you are on stage and you say, “Nance we're in a sailboat”, and I say, “No we're not”, you know, I have blocked the scene. And it goes so. 

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So for someone with a high “Yes” or a high psychological safety as we parallel these two theories of thought. Amy Edmondson talks about one being in the comfort zone, being in the comfort zone where we have high psychological safety, but not a lot of accountability, not a lot of pressure that we put on ourselves. 

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And I think perhaps many of us have been in a period in our career where we're sort of coasting or we're in that comfort zone. In improv, if you have a high “Yes”, you agree with everything that's going on on stage, but you're not advancing it yourself. You're not putting yourself out there to risk and empower the scene forward. We call that the “Passenger”. The passenger there's sort of lot, along for the ride.

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Ross  

I think we can all recognize in our careers and lives when there's been passengers, and potentially those are at such high risk right now. Because the pressure that we're under, of economic pressure, social pressure, all of these things. To have passengers that just go with the flow that aren't creating value, that aren't helping the direction and movement of forwards. There's just no room for them anymore. The others, they show up, and they cause us a blocker, and they get dealt with. But it's maybe the passengers that are the sneaky ones. They consume the resources, the energy, they up take a seat, they use resources of the food, the time, the money, those sorts of bits, but they're not contributing more than just sitting there. I think they're the ones to really look out for. 

And if you really look at yourselves and ask yourself, when am I being a passenger? Is this good? Is this good for me? Is this good for my team? Is it good for my organization? How can I reengineer the value that I'm now giving to the organization? Without this becoming a personality issue? This isn't about control, or those sorts of things. But how do you contribute value?

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Nancy  

Well, that's so astute. I love that what, what Amy Edmondson would say, would be in order to move someone out of the comfort zone into more of a learning zone is to give them more work, and work with meaning. Work that allows them to tap into their purpose and fulfillment. When you are on an improv stage, and you have a passenger, you are putting more weight and responsibility on your other players to carry the scene. And you are dead weight, you are a drain, and you're absolutely right, in today's business environment, holy cow, you’re a ticking time, you are not long for this world. It is a Darwinian, if this is and they are being…

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Ross  

There'll be on the die side of the adapt or die.

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Nancy  

They will.

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Ross  

Of their tasks, of their roles. A passenger in a certain area because the process provided value, or the way they did things or showed up provided value historically. But unless they're recognizing technological changes, industrial changes of their sector, and they will be left behind. And that's a big fear for people. And the greatest piece about exponentials is it's gradual and sudden, you know, it sneaks up on us.

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So we need to sharpen our awareness skills of, they're not going to be in a linear fashion of “Oh yeah, I'm a passenger, I'm a passenger. It's oh, I didn't even realize I am and I'm gone”. So we've got to be really looking and telling the truth to ourselves quickly about this I urge people to do that.

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Nancy  

You have described, you have dissected an improv scene. I love the way that you use, it is not linear, it is self-discovery, it is co-creation, it is discovery uncover, it is to discover and uncover. And part of what makes individuals drop anchor there is their unwillingness or incapability to unlearn what they know. And you're right, it often comes as a shocker like they have, I didn't, I didn't know. And then I'm gone.

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Ross  

Do you know I have a great sort of visual piece in a story that I've used a few times, and you just triggered it by saying anchor. And it was describing a boat in a harbor with an anchor. And when the seas are choppy and the tides going in and out, an anchor is super valuable, super helpful. It's what can save you, it’s what can save the boat banging into other boats, it can mean it's still there when you come back a week later, and you've gone. I like Mr. Anchor, he's been great to us, he has enabled us to, feel safe to have value. Now let's fill that harbor with water. So fast, so quickly. The anchor becomes your death. 

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So something that served you before in an environmental context that was normal and things that were predictable, and that the anchor was designed for great. As soon as that influx of something means that actually takes and sinks the ship, because it wasn't able to float, the chains were all there in those chains, all those little things. One was called lean, one was called this, one was called email or fax machines or whatever they were, that allowed us to perform to be successful. The speed of a change can now undermine something that was historically successful for us. 

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And that's difficult for people when they're getting reward, when they're getting applause, when they're getting a pat on the back in whatever that might be, an applause in the sense of improv, “Oh, I've done that well so I'll do that again”. To an applause of someone's written a check for you or they've given you a promotion. 

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Nancy  

Right.

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Ross  

Now, with all of these things and all these concepts, you talk about and I love made up words, you know, these. What's the word for when you combine two words together to make another one? I can't think of it right now.

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Nancy  

Oh, man. There's someone listening right now…

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Ross  

With this wherein, your time, you've been into organizations, tell us a story of where you've seen it work really wel. You talked about working with lots of STEM organization in terms of, be it very academic type people. Where's it worked well, how did it work? And what problem did it solve, give us some examples that we can look into.

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Nancy  

Okay, I want to talk about a great organization called "Engineers Without Borders", you know, Doctors Without Borders. So Engineers Without Borders. They are an incredibly adaptable organization and made up of engineers who have a different sort of line of thought and who have been taught and educated in a traditional way of being and malleability is important and being able to adapt is important. 

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And I love, I need to just acknowledge with thanks your metaphor for the boat for the anchor, because when we talk about the lesson that I gave, at what applied improv gave to this organization of Engineers Without Borders was a deep appreciation for what resiliency looks like, and how we can adapt and embrace different parts of resiliency. When you think of a huge strong oak tree, just hundreds of years old and steadfast and nothing can, no winds can blow this thing down. Sometimes our resiliency looks like that. And we get that sometimes resiliency looks like a read in the wind that has that necessary flexibility and it bounces right back up. 

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But sometimes, adaptability looks like that type of tree, that seemingly without any type of life for sword or nutrients available to it, its root structure adapts to its environment, and yet it still thrives. And this one organization, this one chapter of Engineers Without Borders, really needed to know and embrace that necessary adaptability because they are good at getting past the borders and the BS and they are needing to get drill wells and get clean water into some of the most difficult places on this planet.

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And with limited resources and their need to adapt is vitally important and learning how to improvise with what they have and to accept the reality and if you will, what they could do with a different idea and co-creation and importantly, with the individuals in that community and where they were working, direct application for building an ensemble. Dave Cook is a great guy with the American Society of Civil Engineers. He happens to be on the cover of his alma mater, Arizona State University. He’s a geologist and on the cover, it says “He's a Rock Star”, and he is the president of Engineers Without Borders and it is just, I'm in awe, I'm a fan of any organization that can embrace creativity with the intellectual rigor and effective game, that the educators, our educators talk about effective gain all the time, that emotional willingness to learn. And you mentioned it as well around, that people must, be you got to see the signposts for adaptability coming, we must be willing to change and if we're not, you use the word awareness several times, awareness several times and what is that another organization that I worked with was the University of Toronto, pharmacy program was a pilot project for us to build improv in our residency program in medical schools. 

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And indeed, there is now an improv exercise embedded right into the medical school interview. And I'll just tell you that McMaster University, which is a world renowned, Canada's most research intensive university, in Hamilton Ontario, has a very innovative medical school and their proprietary mode of interviewing people is called the MMI, McMaster Mini Interview. 

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So instead of being the traditional, eight usually men behind a big table interviewing one medical school candidate, they have tiny stations in literally different rooms where the candidate goes through very quick six to eight minutes, very intense interviews. And they're interviewing for all sorts of different things, not just the clinical knowledge, but their listening skills and empathy skills and things like that. 

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And there was this one station called the origami station. The origami station and two candidates, one had a sheet of paper with instructions, origami instructions to how to build a swan, and the other individual needed to listen and do spatial, you know, understand how to, they needed to work together to do this. Well, medical students being medical students, everybody boned up on their origami stations and origami skills, and that was really no longer valid.

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And yet the evidence shows that the more empathy our healthcare professional has, the better clinical decision he makes, and the better clinical result. So we have this proprietary special improv exercises, because you cannot prepare for improv. And they're looking to do so and build, and to look for and assess empathy in medical students. 

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So that's another example of where applied improv really, really worked well. I'll also share that we just received word that our clinical paper has been accepted for publication, we had a trial at the university to lower anxiety, social anxiety, symptomology, using applied improvisation, we had proper pre and post qualitative and quantitative measures to do this, and it was unbelievably successful, it was really good.

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Ross  

I look forward to that. I'm sure there's still people listening who their anxiety stick would go up at the very thought of improv. But in all things, the thought of something versus the doing of it, is very different. 

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And we can build up things in our mind to such a state, that then just getting stuck in and doing, “It's like me with loads and my work tasks, the think about them, I build them up, I've got this presentation to do, I got this piece to do, and then doing it, I know it's gonna work out, I know it’s gonna happen”.

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And there's a couple of bits I want to pick up on. One was, you reflected back about awareness and awareness being you. And it was one of the things that motivated us around adaptability and trying to bring awareness of AQ, because we don't know what we don't know, we can't improve what we don't measure. You know, there's all these various things that people have said, we can rationalize it, but can we then experience it? If we're trying to problem solve something, and we're in a room, and it's pitch black, our ability to deal with that it's going to be harder than if we are aware of what's around us. 

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So if adaptability changes from just being this word with kind of strange understanding, or is it resilience? Is it flexibility? Is it grit, all of these things that we can put some language to it, we can build some labels and say, “Ah, this is resilient”. And it looks like a pencil and we use it in this way. This is this and this is how you use it, you can then start to lever that for problem solving. 

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And what I think is so fascinating. The other part was the origami with instructions. And so many organizations yearn for an instruction manual. We need a plan, what's our process? What's the list of tasks, all of those things and then we can go. The reality is in lots of these things is the path reveals its way when we start walking.

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Nancy  

Ah, that’s so great.

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Ross  

And that's kind of my best version of the poem, quote, it's not exactly right. But the essence is there. Is this dichotomy between needing structure and plans to just get started and build it along the road. And this is the dilemma for companies isn't it? In situations of rapid change versus predictability, uncertainty versus certainty is when our instruction manuals valuable, when it’s just being able to improv, being able to problem solve, being able to have these core baseline skills, whether they're called soft or essential, being able to communicate with people. You talked about Candor in teamwork, Radical Candor and to be able to get feedback.

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To me, Dan Sullivan talks about 25-year commitment to things, are you going to be endlessly fascinated and motivated in the area that you choose? The more I go down this rabbit hole, the more energy I get and it is wonderfull to find that.

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Nancy  

Me too, me too. And absolutely contagious. And you know what, it is a social contagion because we all have it. We have, when I watch intuitive knowledge come to the fore, and to be witness to someone who truly delights in their own creation and co-creation with another I tell you, Ross it's incredible, it's magnetic, there is something untapped.

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And you talk about awareness. In my improv workshops, we talk about the importance between a reaction and a response. A reaction and a response. I tell you, the difference is huge. And we often employ silence in a scene in order to bring silence as another character on stage. And I know that sounds like totally artsy and weird, but I tell you it is, it gives us that awareness that that four beat silence informs and it is amazing to watch two players become emotionally aligned and where they're going now with the scene together.

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We have an ability to, you know right now I'm working with an organization in Detroit,  I'm part of a anti-racist white educator group who is working on developing a workshop, and it is unlearning. It is unlearning and the necessary discomfort in that and employing silence and unlearning and following what Barry O'Reilly talks about in his research, watching our behavior, impact, impact the change and having a new perspective. Everything in applied improv does that. I often tell, I often give people homework from a workshop and for your listeners, I would dare you,  I double dare you to go see more, see more. 

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And writers do this all the time. If you are in the next week or so, if you are in a grocery store, waiting in line six feet apart, distancing, and you're in our masks. We are often waiting and waiting when we are in solitary time can be used to cultivate our adaptability, our perspective, our point of view, what I would task my improv class with is to look at the cashier. Watch the cashier, give that cashier a story. Give her, put meat on the bones, to ask was she born in Canada? Where was she from? What did she want to be when she was 12? How many children does she have? What was the best day of her life? What was the worst? You know build a story and it doesn't just, it offers us an ability and an opportunity to look at “the other”. Largely why the world is so politically polarized is because we define ourselves not who we are but who we are not. 

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And we have a great dislike of “the other” we have a fear of “the other’. We drop anchor in what we know, what we think we know, what we believe to be true is what we believe to be right. And I tell you, you talk about people in the comfort zone having a time limit on their existence. So to do we have that type of mentality, that mindset where we are just set in our ways it is your improv. Improv is not a thing. It is not a tangible thing. Improv is a way, it is a way of thinking, it is a way of seeing an idea. 

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Ross  

There's two stories, I want to share. One, I couldn't stop smiling because you were describing a game that my wife Karen and I play on many occasions, we'll sit and we'll watch others. Whether we're in a restaurant or in a park and we'll pick a character each that we're watching and we'll give them who they are.

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Nancy  

You give them voice.

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Ross  

So we give them the name, what they do, you know, what challenge they had yesterday, what they're not looking forward to, what they're excited about. And we just create this life story of other people.

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Nancy  

Seriously? Yes yes.

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Ross  

And it's most fun. And for Karen and I, sometimes it gets silly because you get really random names and really radical bits but it's also to take us out of ourselves. 

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Nancy  

Right.

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Ross  

And to go into a world intentionally. And often the one of the challenges you talked about there was almost this, this echo chamber that we all live in and when do we take a vacation from that? When do we go and explore and pioneer a new world, and that's reading an opposing thought, that's reading something that's different, that's watching something that's different that you might not watch before. And looking for the beauty in it because there's beauty there and there's also something to be grateful for. And that is completely your response. So this is, what is it doing for me, not to me. And just all of these clever little just thought processes and framings can help us face whatever challenge we're facing. 

So many are facing the reality of are they going to be going back into work? Here in the UK, we've got so many people that have been furloughed, I didn't even know what the word furlough was until COVID. And in the US, masses are unemployed. We're not going to suddenly flick a switch, and it will go back to, you know, employed and all of these companies as they were before. Now is a perfect opportunity to go on a vacation to another potential world. And the difference between our stories being a collection of our experiences in the past to our stories of scenarios of what if. And so for ourselves this job interviews, all of these things, tell me about what you've done, about your experience, tell me an example here, you know, I do it still the same. You know, tell me about an example when it does. What a difference it would be is, what if, if this happened tell me,what would you do? 

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And so if our listeners in an improv situation is, what if no rules, no history, we could start in a new postcode, in a new area or in a new way. What would we then want to do? Who would we want around us? What would we want to take with us? What would we want to leave behind? And that's the essence of unlearning. 

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And I want to kind of finish off, I am confident there's going to be lots of people who are now super excited to embrace and improv, and how could they get in contact with you? How could they reach out to you? And also where would you advise they start in terms of some of those improv. You mentioned one great thing. Observe a cashier, great. 

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Nancy  

Sure. It’s solo improve.

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Ross  

How do people get in touch with you and reach out to you? And the second, just a couple of extra little bits that people might be able to go to if they're curious about improv and about how that can help them with their mental agility and innovation and problem-solving.

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Nancy  

Oh, thank you. What a generous question Ross. My company is Nancy Watt Communications", I run a program called Happy “H A P P I E”, which is an acronym for How to Apply Positive Psychology Improv Exercises. 

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So whether you want to build cohesion or collaboration or creativity or better communication or clarity, whatever. There are very specific improv exercises that allow people to have that direct learning experience and thank God since COVID, many of them are translating well online. I'm doing Zoom workshops all the time. 

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And in fact, for the anxiety group, we have now renamed it “Connection Deficit Disorder” not “Attention Deficit Disorder”, but Connection Deficit Disorder and we're doing well there. I want to tell you about a couple of games, one of the things that is out, because many teams on Zoom are still using PowerPoint. I know I know, I know. 

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But PowerPoint Karaoke is a wonderful improv exercise. Have you ever played this Ross, do you know PowerPoint Karaoke?

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Ross  

I have not played this, tell me more, tell me more.

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Nancy  

Oh, my God, you would be great, you would be great at this, I give you and if people want it, please contact me, Nancy at NancyWattComm.com and it is a deck of PowerPoint slides that you have never seen before in your life, you then get an offer, I give you a topic you know nothing about and off the cuff in an improvised state, you have to segue every scene, every next slide that comes in the deck of slides and you have to improvise an expert topic about, I don't know pineapples or kayaking or something like that. 

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And it is amazing. We talk about the connection in our teams, we talk about the co-creation and watching the audience be invested in the spontaneity and the knowledge that comes out of in the minute presentation. It's awesome. I was with a group of engineers, and oh my god, I tell you, the engineers are fascinating to work with. And they're really my favorite. Do you know what it sounds like when an old engineer changes his mind, Ross? He goes like this, “Hmmm”. That's it. You know just like that.

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Ross  

That was the phase change in the brain.

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Nancy  

Yeah, exactly. He's like,”Hmmm”. They loved this game because it pulled them out of their invested knowledge and into creativity. And they had their audience with them along the way. You know, "neuron mirroring", right? How the brainwaves become in sync and stuff like that and that happens there. When we talk to our teams about adaptability, and when we bring our own experience to it. And in the improv world, we talk about story. And story at its most skeletal is what we like to say, what, so what, now what, and let me tell you, this is all over your AQ, all over your research I have loved, what is it? What, so what, now what, and at its most basic, that's an improv scene.

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Ross  

It is. I'm gonna set us both a challenge if you're up for it. And if the listeners lasted this long, this is going to be a great little bonus for you. I want to connect again. And we'll create a adaptability-focused improv PowerPoint Zoom Game. 

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Nancy  

Stop it. Love, love that idea.

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Ross  

And one of the things is the danger of Zoom is to see people as task avatars. And we are losing this, as you said, connection. And we try and build it in, we have what's the positive focus before any meeting, we have various things that we're building in. And on Fridays, we our have Friday- drinks via Zoom. And we've been doing quizzes, I would love to be able to have a improv adaptability, PowerPoint kind of game piece so let's create one in time for when this comes live so that if people listen to this, we'll have that in on the link. And we'll do that for everybody. I think that'd be wicked.

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Nancy  

That is brilliant. So much fun. So much fun. I can hardly wait.

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Ross  

Great stuff. It's been a real pleasure. I'm on my endless pursuit of expanding my own knowledge and learning and selfishly that's a big motivator for me to have these podcast conversations and hopefully, the audience has been inspired, picked up a few things that they can experiment maybe for the first time or for those that are improv people that have done it many times before you can bring some other people with you. That's been super Nancy, and I look forward to creating something new together.

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Nancy  

Likewise, likewise, have a great evening. Thank you.

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Voiceover  

Do you have the level of adaptability to survive and thrive in the rapid changes ahead? Has your resilience got more comeback than a yo-yo? Do you have the ability to unlearn in order to reskill, upskill, and break through? Find out today and uncover your adaptability profile and score your AQ visit "AQai.io" To gain your personalized report across 15 scientifically validated dimensions of adaptability for limited time enter code "Podcast65" for a complimentary AQ me assessment. AQ AI transforming the way people, teams, and organizations navigate change.

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Outro

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