Podcasts

Episode 7- Decoding AQ with Ross Thornley Feat. Enrique Rubio- Founder of Hacking HR

‍

Intro  

Hi, and welcome to Decoding AQ, helping you to learn the tools mindsets and actions to thrive in an ever-changing world. 

‍

Ross  

Hi and welcome again to Decoding AQ, I have a very special friend, Enrique Rubio. Who I think we have quite a lot in common Actually, both vegans, we have pets, I've got dogs. So here you have two. But one thing that we don't have in common is, I read that you're an ultra runner. So we'll get into that as well. But Enrique is founder of Hacking HR, an amazing online community, and physical community before COVID, that is really doing phenomenal work in this kind of convergence between HR past HR, future and technology and how do we serve that community to have a better future for everyone. So I'm super excited to have you here.            

‍

Enrique  

Thank you, Ross, thank you so much for inviting me. And we got to tell your audience a little secret, you are wearing a Hawaiian shirt right now and I'm wearing a Jurassic Park because we wanted a shirt because we wanted to have this as a you know, as a friends conversation, right? And, friends get together like this.

‍

Ross  

Indeed, very much. In fact, we've just had our team, happy hour via zoom. And so I entered that with a Hawaiian shirt and within a few moments, people's camera’s went off and 30 seconds later, they come back and they're wearing their Hawaiian shirt.  

‍

Enrique  

Oh that is so fun!

‍

Ross  

Yeah, that was quite good fun. So give the audience a little bit of your background, in your own words, where you've come from in terms of eclectic mix in banking, in HR, you've run your own podcast, all sorts of things. Just give us a little flavor of some highlights of what's brought you here today so far in preparation?

‍

Enrique  

Absolutely. Well, just begin by saying that I have been a little bit of everywhere, my main two areas of expertise and career if you will, have been engineering, I'm an electronic engineer, and HR, I have been about 10-12 years in each of those spaces. In between, or during my journey, my tenure in each of those spaces. I have done several other things I created and founded and led an NGO in Venezuela to train people on leadership and product management. This is a secret that not too many people know, I liked, I used to love politics before in my country, my country's very polarized right now. Like, it seems everything else in the world. And I ran for mayor of the capital city. And not many people know this, I should be putting this in my in my LinkedIn profile. And I run with the Green Party, which is a party that put forward environmental policies and whatnot. I lost the election, I learned a lot in the in the process. But to me, one thing that connects that one participation in politics with everything that I've done in life is the idea of serving people, serving the community. So I am an electronic engineer, I have done HR, I had an NGO, I run for mayor. 

‍

Now I'm the founder of Hacking HR, which is a global learning community, bringing together HR leaders and practitioners from all over the world to discuss about all things that are important at the intersection of virtual work technology, organizations, people innovation, but at the end of the day, if you look at all these very diverse, diametrically opposed kind of things, the one connecting thread, among all them is my passion to connect people and to serve people. I love that.

‍

Ross  

And it really shines through I mean, we've been collaborating and forming a partnership together as organizations in terms of you as a multiplier. And you know, we're pioneering a new area of research and how we can serve and be a hero to the same people. And it's been a really interesting, very open collaboration. And a word that's one of our mindsets is co-elevation. And I think that landed so well in our early stages is you're just being to serve. It's not just talk, you genuinely are that through and through as a human being.

‍

And it's a real pleasure to go on a journey through life with people that you enjoy doing things together with. And I think that's critically important. In terms of that eclectic mix of career of engineer of politics of HR of NGOs, what would you say has been maybe a story that has shaped your thinking now, was there a particular event through that journey, and that you recall as having significance for you?

‍

Enrique  

There may be two of them. And one of them is when I was back in a school, you know, 20 years ago, I was the president of the Student Union or the student association in the University back in Venezuela, what I come from, and I had a style of leading, that was very dictatorial. If you will and I clearly remember, we did something I don't know what it was about, I can remember that. But somebody wrote, like a graffiti on one of the banners that we put out there saying that it was a dictator. That really looked that I'm talking about a guy, you know, I was like 18-20 years old, I don't remember, that really opened my eyes to the person that I was and the person that I didn't want to be, I didn't want to be that.

‍

I wanted to be somebody who was welcoming of diverse points of view, I wanted to be somebody who invited open dialogue, invited disagreement and conflict, so that we could get out of, you know, we could get the best ideas out of that. It wasn't my change, my transformation not didn't happen overnight, it took me a while. But that one moment, defined what was going to be my career going forward. Right now, I am a totally different person than I was back then. 

‍

But it wasn't easy for me because, you know, I had a style of doing things. Right now one of the things that I do is, I say it, and I practice it in the things that I do is welcoming people to disagree to give us feedback, even when that feedback hurts, because sometimes, you know, feedback comes across as hurting your feelings, because you're so emotionally attached to something that when you hear something that you don't want to hear, it's it's hard.

‍

But I'm in a place right now of I'm open to all of this, because that's how I learn. That's how I create something better. That's how I grow. If I wasn't open to all of those things, I wouldn't be able to do the things that I'm doing. So that was a defining moment for me, because it helped me understand the person that I was, and the person that I didn't want to continue to be. But that was  one area. 

‍

And the other time was in 2009, I think I was fired from a company, I was working from this company, I was, you know, I gave them so much. But then there was a point in time, you know, when I got a little bored about what I  was doing, and then I started creating my side, you know hustle if you will, when they found out about that they fired me because they hated that I was doing something else, or them working for a company, which is kind of ridiculous. But you know, that's what they did. And HR didn't really do anything about it. Right? They just stayed behind. And I told him like, you know, how are you tolerating this, I mean, this is a terrible message for the rest of the organization. 

‍

So that was a defining moment for me, because it was then when I decided I want to get into HR, because this can't be, you know, the way HR operates. I mean, I'm not doing anything against the company. But on the other hand, I am learning so many things outside. And I'm bringing all of those skills back here for free, basically. And it should be a great opportunity for the company also to take advantage of that. Anyway, those were sort of two of my defining moments in my career and the person that I think I am today.

‍

Ross  

It's interesting, isn't it, this importance of mirrors of having feedback, to see oneself and to be open to what is shown. And we need a level of willingness, a level of confidence to be able to take that on, and also a desire to continually improve as those things and like you say, sometimes it hurts, it can be true. And in a quiet moment of reflection, we can then evolve who we want to be.

‍

Enrique  

Just to follow up on that thought, you know, I recently posted something on my LinkedIn saying that it isn't the feedback that we don't want to hear, or the biggest opportunities of our lives are waiting for us. Because I want to say, I don't mean to say that we don't want to hear it, as we don't ask for it, it’s the feedback that hurts. Perhaps the one that becomes the most important because you know, it hurts at the beginning. But then you find the truth, that feedback. And when you find the truth, whether one or many truth in that feedback, and you embrace them, and you say, Wow, I didn't know that about me or about the work that I was doing, then you grow from there and you do things better.

Ross  

I think it reminds me of a comment of a coach a number of years ago that said to me of be ruthless in decision making and humane in execution. And often we get that the other way round. You know, we were so humane in the decision that we end up being ruthless in the execution. Maybe similar in feedback, is that being ruthless about the truth, but humane in the way we execute that in terms of those things. And that's a that's a special skill, right? Something that we don't get right every time and being willing to recognize that it's often hard for the person giving that feedback as much as it is for the person receiving it, you know. 

‍

Enrique  

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. You know, like AQ.ai is a company that is working on the very concept of adaptability. How do you adapt to anything if you're not open to listening, or to hearing about the things that do not work anymore and about the things that could potentially work? But the very concept of adaptability relies on the cornerstone of a feedback because if you don't have that feedback, whether through assessments through coaching, mentoring, whatever it is, you won't be able to know, out of the things that you do, which ones of them are not delivering the value that you need from them.

‍

And what's funny is that when you look at the stories of people that lose their professional relevance, even the companies that lose the professional relevance, what you see in those companies and those people is that they are clinging on things that are holding them back from adapting and from changing. That’s why very, very recently have been talking a lot about a concept that he called mental flexibility, mental flexibility to learn and to change this two things for me are very important learning is not enough, you have to be willing to change. And willing to change implies embracing the new things, and letting go of those things that may be holding you back holding you back. And they are not delivering the kind of value that you need at this very moment. And going forward. So I think that's a it is powerful concept, if you will.

‍

Ross

Very, very powerful concept. And I think the the challenge of what we learn, and then what we unlearn is contextual. And the unlearning something that's no longer serving us is quite easy, right? If that's no longer delivering the result that we're after whatever result that may be in our lives. What's challenging and difficult is when it's seductive, and it's seducing us into thinking this result is okay. is good enough, unknowing that just over the cliff, it becomes then the tether, so it was the anchor during the storm, that was great. But in a tsunami, it's what sunk you acknowledge that process. It takes bravery to decouple ourselves from a point of knowledge that has served us successfully up to that point. I think what's changed now that we're all recognizing is the difference of speed and pace. If we could get familiar with our slowly let go of that process, or knowledge or thing that served me before, and it's not going to hurt so much for me or my outcome?

‍

Now, that's the death if we don't act quick enough. So I think that's a really interesting part. And you know, I want to come to maybe the embryo of Hacking HR, it's just over three years ago. Is it when you first started, how did you start it?

Enrique  

Two and a half year.

‍

Ross

two and a half? How did you start it? Why did you start it? Where did it start? Give us a little bit of that spark moment. And maybe what you were thinking it could be at the time, if you can remember that? Because I guess so much has happened in those two and a half years, tell us that story.

‍

Enrique  

Absolutely. Before telling you the story, though. I mean, I don't want to let go of this very interesting conversation that we're having about feedback. Like about five years ago, I wrote an article about being radically open minded. And this is the difference between being open minded, and being radically open minded. If I have an idea or have a set of dogmas, if you will, and you come up with an idea that is different than mine, yet it is aligned with my dogmas, I may say, Alright, I'm going to do your idea and I'm going to leave mine behind, because your idea continues to be aligned with my values, my dogmas and whatnot. Now, for that's, being open minded, now be radically open minded, is you come in with an idea that contradicts the various set of values or dogmas that they have, or assumptions that you have about life. 

‍

And me saying, You know what, it makes so much sense that now I have to shift, you know, what my North used to be. Because my north is not a real north anymore, it’s shifted, and it's okay. Because things change, life changes, you know, work changes. So that, to me is being radically open minded. And that's to me continues to be a very important concept in my life, because I think that, look at the world, all that's going on right now, we continue to be in such a level of political and economic gridlock, talking about you know, capitalist versus socialist, you know, Republicans versus Democrats. I'm like, dude, they don't realize that the world has changed to since the Constitution was written in 1776. I mean, for the love of God, let's do things in a different way. We're not that this is not the cold world anymore. We are in a different world.

‍

Connecting that a little bit with the actually the idea of Hacking HR and they and the embryo, the origins of Hacking HR, what was going on with me back then, this was like about July of 2017 when I came up with that idea with the idea of Hacking HR. There were two things happening with me back then one of them is that I didn't find that HR was delivering the kind of value that I knew it was potentially capable of delivering. So that's one thought. 

‍

And then the other thought very contextual to my situation was that I was working in a place where I felt that only maybe 5-10% of my capacities were utilized.  For them that means that I had a lot of energy, creativity, curiosity, you know, waiting in there, like water, pushed back by a dam, you know, waiting to be released. And I said, What can I do with all this energy that I have? Because I'm getting very anxious and I want to get active with these things. What can I do with this energy that I have, but at the same time, serving people and at the same time connecting the things that I'm passionate about, which are technology and HR. 

So that's how Hacking HR came to exist. It was the idea of serving people in conversations about technology and HR. But I was only able to make it happen because I had all this energy that I wanted to, I wanted to find an outlet for that energy, which I was not finding at work. Which is a testament by the way of the fact that many organizations did, I'm not the I'm not the only one going through this, many organizations are utilizing 10-15% of the people, even when they use the entire day, it doesn't matter if they use if they employ somebody 24 hours a day, you may not have more than 5% of their creative potential, even if they spent the entire day in an office 365 days during the year. Now, that outlet, which I didn't find in my organization, I wanted to do something positive with it instead of just coming back home, sitting on the couch and watching TV. And that's how I created Hacking HR. 

‍

So what's that like a two fold thing, one, pulling together this important conversation about HR, technology future of work. And number two, it was an outlet for me. And never did I envision that it was going to become what it is today, I never thought that I was going to quit my job to do this. I never thought there was going to be a global community. I never thought that I was going to be participating in podcasts, you know, interviews on things, you know, to talk about this. I just wanted to have fun doing something interesting and it became this.

‍

Ross  

It's interesting, I think, this thought of a burning platform to create change. A George Bernard Shaw, you know, all change comes from the unreasonable man, you know, and the unreasonable person, that you have to see that something isn't right through the way you see things, your lens to create some change. And the other part is a burning ambition to something that could be better. So something's not good enough. And they sense that it could be better at the same time creates an opportunity.

‍

And I guess things snowball sometimes don't they, you said, you know, ambitious, wanted to get involved and have fun, start a community that could do something but I wasn't served, I felt that there was a missing opportunity here. Sat where you are now, two and a half years in a community that's approaching 100,000. You know, that is putting on events that are so engaging, so well attended, that is leading the world of creating the new contracts for work, what are the new ways in which we will create value in the world? Where do you think you might be saying just another two and a half years? Do you spend time envisaging that? Or do you just roll chairs? What's your balance now that you've got momentum of your leadership and direction of of its future? Tell us a little bit about that?

‍

Enrique  

That's a great question. And I of course, I have thought about that. And one thing that that's going on right now is the difficulty to plan anything too far ahead in time because, you know, the world has changed so dramatically over the past few weeks, because of the Coronavirus that there were many things that I wanted to do this year, now we're changing them. You know, let me give you an example. And then respond the question of what I see in the next couple of years and a half. We have this program called Grow. Grow is what we call the neck, the community, the first global community for the next generation of business leaders, of HR leaders. So we were bringing HR leaders together to prepare them to lead organizations going forward. This was going to become one of our revenue sources for Hacking HR, because it's not a free program, Coronavirus happened and we said, you know, my business partner and I in this idea, we said, You know what? We got to do what's right, we need the money but we also know that a lot of people don't have the money right now or they lost their jobs. So we're providing scholarships now and now basically, most people are coming through scholarships to the program. So it's not a revenue generating anymore. But we will continue to do it because it is the right thing to do.

‍

But that is one example of how you have to adapt. I know. It hurts because well that's what I envisioned to be part of our revenue generating model. But we know that there's we have to do what's human right now and what's right right now and that's, that's one thing. So I'm using that as an example of how things change in the short to medium term, but in the long term, the purpose are massive, transformative purpose, and I know you love that word, or that expression continues to be the same.

‍

We want to create the best HR that has ever existed. And we don't say that lightly. This is what I believe, if we're able to transform the life of one person in HR to do a better work, that one person in HR, we have an impact on at least 2 to 300 people in their organizations, by creating a better HR professional, just one, we impact 300 people. And by impacting 300 people, we're not only impacting 300 people at work, we're impacting them when they go back to their homes, and they become better parents, better members, better citizens, better members of society. 

‍

So to me, it is not creating the best HR that has ever existed for the sake of HR. It is that to me, this is one path to create a better society. So that's my long term purpose, we're never going to fully achieve that. Right. That's, that's what a massive transformative purpose is, you know, is it is what drives you but you know that you will continue to get there, but you will probably never get really there right.

‍

Now, what do I see happening in the next two years and a half, this is a more concrete thing for Hacking HR, I want to have the largest community of collaboration in HR. Once again, I don't say this lightly, because I don't want to have 1 million members that to me is not a community, you know, having associates or having members, that's not a community, if I only have 10 people participating in Hacking HR, but those 10 people are talking to each other, collaborating, sharing ideas, supporting each other, challenging each other learning from each other. I prefer to have those things connected than 1 million disconnected. 

‍

So to me in two years and a half from now, I want to build the largest community of collaboration in HR. People ask me all the time, what is your role in Hacking HR? Not only am I the founder, but what's your active role in Hacking HR and I like to say this, I am a builder and what I build is bridges. I build bridges that connect people across regions, across countries, across cities, across professions. And I hope they cross those bridges.

‍

And let me give you one last example before probably your next question. We had the event that we had in March, you're participating in our event. I have people from Israel, I have people from Arab countries, I have people from Pakistan, and I have people from India, I dreamed with us being able to tear down mental and physical walls and bring people together to talk about what really matters to all of us. And if we're able to do that, and if we're able to build a community, we are going to have a better society. So that's what I dream about.

‍

Ross  

I love it. What's special about the community is you've built these bridges, people are traveling across it and when they get there, like you say you've created an environment and a movement that says this is what we care about. Here's some tools, here's some knowledge and it takes effort to make that work. You know, it takes continual interventions of events, contents, stimulation, all of those sorts of things. And it's really led, that the community are getting this momentum, you know, and you can push this rock up the hill by yourself or you can have many people like you said, the difference between all loads of people was members clapping away, versus, no, they're right by your side and they are committed to the success because it serves everyone.

‍

In the same vein, as you gave a story there of how you had some plans. you're launching a new proposition, a new revenue stream for the business, something happens and you had to shift, you had to adapt, you had to look back to what are your values? You know, do we serve first? How can we shift this in order to still be a hero, still exist still be part of the principles of the organization, this vision that you have in a few years time where it's grown its impact, where it's having more of these things? What are potentially some of the dangers that you see right now, some of the challenges, some of the obstacles for that happening? What are those that are in your sights at the moment?

‍

Enrique  

Perhaps the one thing that concerns me the most is complacency from people to just stay where they are. And this is very true for HR. Let me give you one example of my career as an electronic engineer. If we were doing right now, the things that we were doing, when I started my career as an electronic engineer, 20 years ago, we will not be having this call in Zoom. We will probably be chatting in the messenger from Hotmail if you remember that. These have evolved radically since then, right? The world is not like it was 20 years ago, when I started this career in electronic engineering. If we transferred that sort of concept to the world of HR, we should be in a very different place in HR right now than the place in which we are. We continue to have practices in place that have been around for not just 20 years, for 50 years. 

‍

For some times you find organizations that continue to call HR personal management, like 1920, when HR came to exist what they call HR 1.0. So the fact that the world has moved so fast and so far, if you will, in other areas, but in HR, we continue to be operating like in 1970. That's concerning to me. 

‍

And the underlying principle in there is a complacency that comes with never been pushed to do a little bit more to go the extra mile. Now, of course, HR is in the eye of the hurricane, because well, and it was before this crisis happened, you know, people were looking into HR and telling them, you know, you need to do more you need to do better and so to me the one concern about the work that I do but not only about the work that i do, in Hacking HR but about organizational's, organizations in general is complacency, and comfort from people entirely to say, that's not going to happen to me, I'm okay, I'm meant to just hire-fire-pay, that's all that I do and that's enough, it’s not enough. 

‍

So the big challenge for us is not to build a bridge just like you, like we were talking about before, the big challenge for us is to tell people, it is your time to cross the bridge. And on the other side, you're going to find a safe space where you can say, I have no idea what's going on here, but I'm willing to learn is pushing me out of the territory in which I was before, which was very known to me. 

‍

And I got across this bridge, and this guy and Raker, Ross, Mike and all these guys doing all this crazy stuff, threw me into this unknown territory, where now I have to find out how to survive and thrive in this new environment. So we are able not only to build the bridge, which we are doing, but also to tap people on the other side of the bridge, that are many people like you who are outside of their complacency and outside of their comfort zone. And now they are learning the new things that will bring value to the world and to organizations, I think we're gonna be in a great place. But that continues to be a big challenge, a very big challenge.

‍

Ross  

So this challenge of complacency, and that can be driven from a lot of different things from it's in their comfort zone to fear, it's been okay to not even perceiving or seeing that there's another place they could be. That would have to be in some dark corners of the world that can't see there's another area. Where have you seen some stories, or some examples of organizations that have been brave enough to traverse that bridge, have started to create the new land and of doing things that maybe aren't HR 1.5, or HR 2.0 or maybe 3.0? Do are the leaders that you're seeing in organizations? What have they done? And what could our audience learn from that experience? And how has that added value for their organization? So what can we learn from and share? Is there any examples that you can give us? 

‍

Enrique  

Yes, yes. I want to tell you a couple of stories in my aunt in Venezuela, you know, she used to work a lot before then she lost her job. She was already older, she never found a job. She saved money in her career, during her career. And she put all the money in a Stanford Bank here in the United States. In 2008. With the financial crisis, when we started looking into all the banks, we found out that Stanford leaving the Stanford Bank stole all the money, my aunt never ever recovered her money. 

‍

So you'll see, this is a bank that was around for 120 years or something like that. So she destroyed the tradition of that family of doing, you know, perhaps something right. And you see these organizations, and there are many of those like that there were many of those in 2008. There continue to be some of those right now. That lead the world from a place of greed, a place of selfishness, and a place of being human, if you will. Fast forward to 2020 right now going through the crisis of Coronavirus.

‍

This podcast we're recording it in May, about a couple of days ago, Brian Chesky, the CEO and founder of Airbnb sent a letter to the entire company. You know, you read the letter and you almost cry, to be honest, saying how painful it is for him to let go 25% of the company because otherwise the company will fail is already going through a very hard time he said it in the letter that this year they will be making less than half of the revenue they made in 2019. They had to stop all the projects that were not part of the core business. And to be able to survive as an organization they had to let go 25% of their workforce. I said these are the things that we're gonna be doing for you. You're going to be getting 14 weeks of payment, of salary payment, we're gonna give you health care through the entire year, we're hiring outplacement firms to help you navigate the next steps in the process. This is a guy who is leading with love and humanity. 

‍

So these two examples, of course, in different times yet two examples of what I don't want the world to be, or what I don't want organizations to be like Stanford Bank of 2008-2009, and the Airbnb of 2020, this two examples show, dramatically, diametrically opposed examples of how you can operate in this new world. Of course, HR was involved, and less than the Airbnb on the Airbnb side of it, you know, it was involved in making the tough choices, but also doing that with love. So I think that's a great example of not only crossed the bridge, but arriving to a place that is unknown for the company, having let go 25% of the workforce, but doing so with love with care with humanity, if you will. So, I think that's one example of those organizations that have crossed the bridge and are doing things so different than what would have happened. If we were back in 2008.

‍

Ross  

It's really interesting that you pick that story, because the success is not necessarily of what they're doing well, that they've now grown. And they've pivoted, they've adapted stuff, and they got new service propositions, and they're in a thriving state. You picked an example of an organization that is under tremendous pressure, pressure of revenue loss of, you know, their business model. I mean, they started in 2008. They were born of the convergence of factors of events out of the previous crisis, you know, the financial crisis, people now needing new income, and being given an opportunity to generate income from a spare room, together with a need to save money, when they travel and stay in places, it was a perfect opportunity of timing for them to exist. Whereas now, that challenge, and I remember I was it an event in the end of January with one of the founders, and we were having a conversation, it was a founder of YouTube and the founder of Airbnb, were on stage. And it was a small little intimate event. 

‍

And it was very, very interesting to hear. And this was pre any COVID glimmers point. And the confidence that he had about the year ahead, about the opportunities for them was about long term rentals, you know, and they were going into this new area that was seeing great growth for the business. And then just in a very shoot few short weeks, the decimation that's happened, but it hasn't changed. They're human and ethical responsibility of how they want to show up in the world. And when it's painful. And people still show up in that way. That's heartwarming, that's humane in execution, they're ruthless in decision making, they had to do it for the very survival, but humane in the way of execution, about health care about all of these things, it comes on to a really interesting point for us in adaptability is that we're in a situation where we have 26 and rising million in the US unemployed, we're probably going to tip over the point in 1934 of the previous highest unemployment rates, that that transition and the difference of identity loss of people of who they were, what their role was, how they provided value in the world, and how do they transform into providing value in the future? Is it going to require so much adaptability, you know, resilience, emotional stress, mental flexibility, rescaling unlearning all of these different components? Where did organizations and HR fit in that, in terms of maybe, you know, a term I've talked about before is ethical redundancy. 

‍

And maybe what Airbnb has done a component of that? Yeah, we want to make sure you can be employable later, mentally, you know, cognitively, all of those things. Where do you think there's an opportunity for HR to lead that way? Because some of this is going to be unavoidable that there's going to be job losses, and because of technology, or a pandemic, or whatever it will be, but we can do that in a better way. What's your vision of maybe some tips or some ways in which organizations can do that well, when they're under pressure,

‍

Enrique  

I want to be by my answer in a couple of time stages. Stage 1 now, now what's going on right now Coronavirus, waves of consequences and implications in the health and safety and also in the economy. I would say HR has to do a couple of things. One, support their business leaders in the best way possible, because business leaders are making toughest choices of their life right now. And they're also human. They're also parents, they are also family members who may have lost older friends, family members and whatnot. Number one, and number two, they have to support their people in their companies. Meaning that if you need to make the tough determination and choice that you have to let go of some of the people that work for you, because that's the only way to ensure the longevity of the organization. I know for a fact, because it's happened to me as well, it's not easy. 

‍

But I don't think the board be sort of foreign to the fact that the companies will have to make the determination about whether to keep them employed or not. Now, the difference is not whether you tell them, we need to let you go, or when we can keep you in the company. The difference is how you make that determination, and how you make that happen. 

‍

So HR, supporting business leaders and people means being human, being transparent, communicating the rationale of the sessions. And that's why I love so much that letter that Brian Chesky wrote for their people, because he explained the minutiae of everything. He even explained the time at which he was going to be meeting with his teams in other countries, which I think is fantastic to go to that level of detail. And that level of communication and transparency. So that is short term thinking. Now, long term thinking, which I will understand that not all people in HR, could be thinking about this right now but I am hoping that they give it a thought, one day, eventually, you know, in the in the short term, if possible.

‍

I started talking about something that he called The New Value Proposition for HR, which I think is more relevant now than it's ever been before. There are four elements for that new value proposition of HR. Number one element it is putting people first, it’s putting human first and putting human first does not mean that you won't be able to fire or lay off anybody. But it means that you make determinations on decisions. Like being a human, you know, being a human being loving, caring and understanding, so putting people first, delivering the best value to your internal customer, which is your employees. That is the first element of the new value proposition of HR.

‍

The second element is making sure that you truly understand what your business is about. This is mind boggling that when you ask people in HR, do you have any idea where your business is going, and I can tell you that 90% to 95% of them have no idea what their business priorities are. So in order to better serve the organization and ensure the longevity of their organization, you need to understand where they're going. The third element is, you have to build an agile and flexible and an innovative HR function. And to do that, I know that you have to provide the basic framework of operation but imagine that you're building a building, you are building the columns and the outside walls, you're not building the inside, you're leaving a lot of flexibility to redesign and decide the inside of that building. Same approach applies here, you need to set the foundations of the HR processes that you want to have in place. And you need to leave a lot of room for flexibility and adaptability to you know, to continue using the word adaptability. 

‍

And the last element is leveraging on technology to optimize and make things more effective. So short term, supporting business leaders, and being human with people long term, adopting the new value proposition for HR, which is putting people first making sure that you're aligning your HR practices and processes with the business priorities. Number three, be more agile and innovative. And number four, relying or leveraging on technology. That's what I think about the short term and long term of HR.

‍

Ross  

I love that, really appreciate it. And I think one of the challenges that people see is this technology, and leveraging it and human first. And many organizations that we've worked with see those as two fighting energies. And an immune system comes up when a technology might put at risk, certain tasks that are done by humans. And if we're human first, therefore, we don't embrace that technology is part of the internal computer of decision making, even if that's subconscious, because they want to protect the human. 

‍

And so I think what is really a great opportunity for these leaders in HR and in your communities to show how technology can augment. And, yes that's going to mean people need to do two things, reskill and upskill. And it's better to do that, because you've initiated it from a point of control, from a point of anticipation, from a point of readiness, not when you're in the corner facing death. You know, you’re absolute survival mode because your ability to then reskill and upskill is going to be hampered, you're going to be emotional stressed, you know, your mental flexibility is going to be down. As soon as we get emotional our intelligence drops, the blood flow goes to different parts of the brain. And so our ability to think, clearly, strategically shifts and changes. 

‍

So I think what's really important is the timing of this is that when we're embracing technology, that we have an environment that allows it not to be in conflict with human first. So a lot of that comes down to communication, bravery, and getting little wins and layering it so that they build some confidence. What are your thoughts on that?

‍

Enrique  

That's, that's an amazing thinking. I want to give you an example. And I hope I'm not getting too political. In 2015-16, the candidate Donald Trump promised people that coal jobs are going to be back in the United States. So what is the alternative to that? The alternative to that is tell people, those jobs will never ever come back. They will not come back and they haven't come back, you know, three years later.

‍

So what is the alternative is telling people the truth, even when it's hard to hear, telling people the truth and telling. So you guys, you are 200,000 people who used to have coal jobs, and now you don't have any jobs. So the truth is, those jobs will never come back to you. Now, what do we do about that? How do we get ready for the alternative? The alternative is to tell you, you know what, clean energy can create 5 million jobs over the next 10 years.

‍

But our alternative is to either promise you that the jobs won't come back, we'll come back. And we know that that won't happen. Or we train you for the things that we know, are potentially going to happen going forward. And we have a very clear idea that they will actually happen. Let me bring back to reality today. Self driving cars, that's a reality. That's going to happen. Maybe it's going to be slowed down by the Coronavirus, but it will happen. So that means that at least here in America, at least 5 million truckers will lose their jobs. There's no way to sugarcoat that we can not go back to tell them like you know, we don't want self driving cars, we're going to oppose driving cars. I mean, you can do that. But this will eventually happen. 

‍

So what's the alternative to telling people lies? It is one, telling them the truth and telling them what we are going to tell you right now. It's hard to hear, your jobs driving trucks will go away. And we think that will go away in the next 2,3,4,5 years. And it's going to be first this area on second that area. What do we do about that? 

‍

So option number one, we retrain you in this other things. But even if we retrain you 5 million of you will not have jobs in whatever we are going to set this retraining programs. So now let's think for example, that we can retrain some of you to be programmers, maybe 500,000 of you will be programmers, there's still 4.5 million people who lost their jobs. Now, what do we do with you, we got this alternative, we got this other alternative with that we have this array of options to decide how we move forward.  But if we are not able to tell people the truth about these things, we're making a huge mistake, this is circling back to the very first thing that we started talking about, which was feedback, if we are not able to charge people, you won't like what I gotta tell you, but unless they tell it to you, you won't be able to prepare for what's gonna come next. 

‍

And the truth is this, this and that, they may choose to not believe it, it's like, you know, we're building bridges, they may choose not to cross those bridges. Now, we can come back and tell them, hey, you know, this is the bridge that he built for you is still there, cross it. But I think thinking about the future, for all and this idea of humans versus technology, the very first thing that we have to be very clear, transparent, and honest about is that all the jobs in the world are changing and will continue to change because of technology. We also have to tell people that between 1/3 and 50% of all the jobs will be replaced by technology. 

‍

But we also have to tell them that maybe by the year 2030, 80% to 90% of all the new jobs that are going to be created do not exist today. So there's a wide range of a difficult situation, but also many opportunities. So to me, it goes down to how do we manage the dilemma of humans versus technologies, telling people the truth, preparing them for what's possible.

‍

Ross  

I love that we've circled all the way back to this radical feedback. Because the difference in say politics, for example, what people need and what they want to hear are two different things. What they need to hear might not get voted in if they tell that story. If they tell people what they want to hear whether it's true or not, they'll get it. And I think the reality is true for organizations, it's easier to tell people what they want to hear. But that is the very essence of undermining your duty to serve them. The duty to serve somebody is to ensure that they have a brighter future. 

‍

And that's not by deluding them. Thinking that, ah it's going to be difficult, it's not going to be a right conversation, but it's going to be a damn sight more difficult, because it's going to catch them by surprise, because you gave them a false sense of security, and that the future is going to look different. So I, I love that we've come back to this bravery of radical truth, radical feedback. And of course, truth is also in the eye of the beholder, and the perspective. 

‍

So another really important aspect that we encourage people to be is to expand your horizons, look outside of your echo chamber, and to go from the gaze at your big toe, to the gaze at the end of the garden, you know, to look up to see what's going on and see outside of your industries. And don't expect it because it's in another industry that is not going to come and affect you. 

‍

And another piece in my first book was talking about technology is in it. We give it a purpose. It's not about a fight. It's about how do we jazz, how is their harmony, how in these sorts of just dance of life, we create joy in that relationship. And that, for me, is exciting of how we go forward. 

‍

So in the in the final wrap up, I've got a question for you. And the question is around, what would you like to take forward from this event of COVID, in your vision of the business in the future that you perhaps wouldn't have experienced of the gift that it's given you have the way of thought, or the way that you've adapted or expanded or doing things differently? What thing do you go, I am so grateful this happened, because it helped me learn this, or it helped me think in this way, that will give you confidence, to make sure that whatever comes tomorrow, you will thrive in that situation. So I'd like to end on a sense of gratitude. What are you grateful for, even in a dark situation?

‍

Enrique  

You know, I think one metaphor that I have been using is something that everybody talks about, which is you know, we are we're going through a tunnel, you know, very dark, very, very dark right now, we don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, we left some light behind. Now, what I think is that the light that we left behind was not shining upon everybody, it was shining upon a few. We are in a very unequal world, where a few hands are grabbing 80%-90% of the wealth of this world. That is not right. We left the light behind, where you know, people's health care, at least here in America was tied to their employment, and now 30 million people don't have employment or health care. 

‍

And that is not right. So to me, this is very up in the air. But to me, the opportunity and the gifts that I see out of this crisis is that as we transition through this darkness, we are realizing that the way things were before were not okay. We had normalized them. We had normalized, having people overworked, over stress, we had normalized discrimination against women because they needed to take care of family, we have normalized that the so called “low skilled jobs” were needed in society when today they are the most needed jobs like the guy who's driving the bus, or the grocery store clerk who is working in the cashier to give us our food.

‍

So we have normalized so many things before that we're not working for everybody. To me going forward, the main idea here is how can we as we go through this darkness, continue the conversation continue to speak up, so that the light at the end of the tunnel is not the same light that we left behind. But it's the light that is brighter, and that is shining upon everybody, and not just a few. That to me, is the biggest gift and the most extraordinary opportunity that we have right now. Because never before had the world gone through the same thing all together at the same time. So if we miss this one, it's going to be very difficult to go back and redo it again.

‍

Ross  

I love that sentiment. And it resonates a lot with me in terms of our purpose to leave no one behind. And that's what you've just talked about, is this opportunity to rewrite a new contract for how we operate as humanity and leaving no one behind. And that for me is a balance of it's not about getting everybody the same. We're not the same. It's all about equality. It's about a better tomorrow for everyone so that we can co-elevate and we're leaving no one unserved. 

‍

And I'm excited to continue our journey together to move the needle every little one person at a time. It's been a real pleasure. And I look forward to many moments of creating value in the world with you. And I want to say thank you for your support with us and to the community. You do some really great work.

Enrique  

Thank you, Ross. Thank you so much for inviting me.

‍

Voiceover  

Do you have the level of adaptability to survive and thrive in the rapid changes ahead? Has your resilience got more comeback than a yo-yo? Do you have the ability to unlearn in order to reskill, upskill, and break through? Find out today and uncover your adaptability profile and score your AQ visit "AQai.io" To gain your personalized report across 15 scientifically validated dimensions of adaptability for limited time enter code "Podcast65" for a complimentary AQ me assessment. AQ AI transforming the way people, teams, and organizations navigate change.

‍

Outro

Thank you for listening to this episode of Decoding AQ. Please make sure you subscribe to your favorite podcast directory, and we'd love to hear your feedback. Please leave a review and be sure to tune in next time for more insights from our amazing guests.

‍